Disapearing Images

Joe · April 09, 2014, 03:45:12 PM

They definitely screwed up when making the PDF. I'd chalk it up to customer stupidity.

Joe · April 09, 2014, 03:48:58 PM

If you turn overprint preview off in Acrobat the 3 images on the front are gone (covered by a white transparent image) as well as image #8 on the back.

frailer · April 09, 2014, 04:02:03 PM

Quote from: Joe on April 09, 2014, 03:48:58 PMIf you turn overprint preview off in Acrobat the 3 images on the front are gone (covered by a white transparent image) as well as image #8 on the back.

...easy to forget this basic early step. Well, is is for me. :laugh: Compadra had some 'disappearing' type in an ad. The usual; dezinger had it set for OP, so lost in the background. APPE 'flows will bring White OPs back to life these days, but colour on colour....

Joe · April 09, 2014, 06:15:53 PM

Kodak must be reading this thread...I got this in an email from them. :laugh:

QuoteWhite objects appear on page with transparency when converting spot colors
Answer ID 43087 | Published 28-Jun-2011 | Updated 09-Apr-2014
Product

Prinergy Workflow
Prinergy Evo Workflow
Symptoms

White objects appear on page with transparency when converting spot colors. The same page, retaining spot colors as spots, looks okay.

Causes

Conversion of spot colors to process color when they overprint process objects produces unexpected results.

For example, on a certain page, a drop shadow is placed on top of a spot color. The shadow is a 4-channel 8-bit CMYK which is set to overprint a spot object (whose CMYK build is 3,0,10,15). Because the shadow is a different colorspace than the spot object, simple overprint works when you keep spot as spot.

When you convert the spot to process outside of Adobe InDesign, the overprint model no longer works (the 0,0,0,0 CMYK of the shadow knocks out the 3,0,10,15 of the now-converted spot).

Solution

The Adobe InDesign 2 online help states:

"To prevent problems in these cases (spots converting to process), you should first convert the spot colors to process colors before printing to preview the effects with Overprint Preview." In other words, convert all spots in Adobe InDesign or Adobe Illustrator prior to flattening.

Note: If you do not have access to the source files, the Overprint Handling option in Prinergy and Prinergy Evo allows conversion of these sorts of objects.

frailer · April 09, 2014, 08:51:10 PM

QuoteIn other words, convert all spots in Adobe InDesign or Adobe Illustrator prior to flattening.

Not very APPE of them.

Now wonder whether my ad referred to above originally contained a Spot. We received it as Placed in a finished page, which would have been preset to 'Convert All Spots to Process'.

Joe · April 09, 2014, 08:58:30 PM

It says it is from: "The Adobe InDesign 2 online help states"

Not sure if they even had APPE back that far. Though I guess it still applies. It's all got to get flattened at some point.

frailer · April 09, 2014, 09:11:36 PM

True. Odd though, why would they be quoting from Indy 2 Help? Olde Worlde stuff.

Joe · April 09, 2014, 09:22:28 PM

Kodak has never been on the bleeding edge of anything.

Farabomb · April 10, 2014, 07:18:24 AM

The file worked fine for how it was originally specced. As a 5c job it went through fine. It was only when I had to convert it (and the custy isn't thrilled with the results) did the issue show up. I should have known something was up when I printed a sample and it dropped images.

I love printing.

David · April 10, 2014, 07:41:25 AM

it's like a day without sunshine...

DigiCorn · April 10, 2014, 08:20:46 AM

Just curious - did the original placed raster images have alpha or spot channels when opened in photoshop?

Farabomb · April 10, 2014, 09:15:39 AM

You'll have to forgive my ignorance but I'm not sure how to check for alpha channels. The 3 cover images are .pds files, 2 have work paths but I don't see any mention of alpha. The image on the IFC is a .png with transparency so I guess it's possible for that to have an alpha.

I wouldn't mind knowing how to tell if you'd like to enlighten me.

DigiCorn · April 10, 2014, 09:23:46 AM

It would show up on the channel list and say "Alpha Channel." I didn't have a working example from any recent live job, but it could also be a layer mask like the screenshots below (note what happens in the second photo when I delete the mask channel, even though it wasn't technically viewable):

Joe · April 10, 2014, 10:12:51 AM

Quote from: Farabomb on April 10, 2014, 09:15:39 AMYou'll have to forgive my ignorance but I'm not sure how to check for alpha channels. The 3 cover images are .pds files, 2 have work paths but I don't see any mention of alpha. The image on the IFC is a .png with transparency so I guess it's possible for that to have an alpha.

I wouldn't mind knowing how to tell if you'd like to enlighten me.

I think the issue with this file is that somehow, somewhere they flattened it. I think EVO would have handled it correctly if you had gotten a non-flattened file. Which may be impossible since they never set it up correctly if they were using .png files with a transparent background. I mean they are great using them that way for the web but not print.

Farabomb · April 10, 2014, 10:34:22 AM

By that description then no, there were no channels other than CMYK.

Something must have gone wonky on the export on their end. I ended up with a huge PDF and they sent a 2 meg file. Yea, you can't email mine but it works at least.

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Disapearing Images