But wowser....were I going to buy one my minimum specs would be 16 GB of RAM, i7 CPU, and yes I'm spoiled but I would want to view it in 5K on a 27" monitor with a 512 GB SSD.
The iMac spec'd out there would be $1,699 without any monitor. For a 5K 27" display I think it would run you $500.00 or more. So best case you are looking at $2,199 for a Mac that I would classify as midrange. Want to max it out?
i7 CPU, 64 GB RAM, 2 TB SSD, 10 GB ethernet? $4,199 plus the monitor!
More reasonable but still...i7 CPU, 32 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD, 1 GB ethernet? $2,499 plus the monitor!
:shocked:
get me one while you're there Joe..
mucho apprecitato!
But which one?
The 4199 one but get us the monitor too, K?
Apple is removing any affordable computer from their lineup. The MacMini was their cheap computer that just about anyone could afford to get into owning a Mac. Now with raised prices, no option to upgrade the hard drive later on, you are getting a more premium computer with a premium price tag. A maxed out Mac Mini is a couple hundred less then a refurb iMac Pro and mini does not come with a mouse, keyboard or a 5K screen.
Quote from: Tracy on October 31, 2018, 11:02:17 AMThe 4199 one but get us the monitor too, K?
No problem. Just wait for UPS to show up. Should be any day now.
Quote from: wonderings on October 31, 2018, 11:48:54 AMApple is removing any affordable computer from their lineup. The MacMini was their cheap computer that just about anyone could afford to get into owning a Mac. Now with raised prices, no option to upgrade the hard drive later on, you are getting a more premium computer with a premium price tag. A maxed out Mac Mini is a couple hundred less then a refurb iMac Pro and mini does not come with a mouse, keyboard or a 5K screen.
Oh yeah I didn't even consider the mouse and keyboard. That is a deal breaker David and Tracy. Sorry.
damn, an' I was getting all excited and tingly.
Nice to know that Apple is going back to their elitist days, where they are too good for everyone.
Here come the clones...Here come the clones...
I guess it's a good thing Apple has the phones to keep their cash reserves up. Guess it's finally time to look at the Dark Side (as I shudder in terror). :drunk3:
Quote from: david on October 31, 2018, 12:18:12 PMdamn, an' I was getting all excited and tingly.
Lifes a bitch huh?
Quote from: scottrsimons on October 31, 2018, 12:18:23 PMNice to know that Apple is going back to their elitist days, where they are too good for everyone.
Here come the clones...Here come the clones...
I guess it's a good thing Apple has the phones to keep their cash reserves up. Guess it's finally time to look at the Dark Side (as I shudder in terror). :drunk3:
I did not mind the price as much when I knew I was getting a great quality product with an OS that was making my life easier. Now I am getting a product that used to balance form and function and is leaning way more towards form then function. No replaceable hard drives anymore, RAM on most units is not replaceable. Apple will do zero upgrade on your machine, only fix it to the exact spec you bought it.
This is the fist time since switching to Mac at the inception of the first iMac that I am debating moving away from Apple. I still think it is a solid product but they no longer seem to be developing for what I want. I also think they have become Big Brother from their famous add in 1984. Think Apples way and only Apples way.
I am shocked but the ram in the Mac mini is user upgradeable instead of being soldered in. Probably some Apple engineer is getting reamed for that oversight as we speak.
I may be wrong as usual, but I don't believe the SSD is upgradeable. There was talk on Macrumors about it having the T2 chip, which means the SSD is soldered in. I don't see how that's possible. SSDs do wear out. Of course, my brain wore out long ago, so I may be entirely wrong.
Of course, the people who liked the original Mini (cheaper, good starting machine) will squawk about this, and the pros who have been wanting a beefier one will like it (maybe not the price). If they'd featured one more low end version along with these, they might have pleased more people.
They do have a "cheaper" model than what I listed. The lowest priced one has an i3 CPU :puke: , 8 GB RAM :puke: , and a 128 GB SSD. It runs $799.00. I would NOT give them $250.00 for that one.
I didn't write these but this is what I found out about the RAM and SSD.
QuoteMEMORY TO 64GB
Memory, which previously maxed on the Mac mini at 16GB, can now be configured up to 64GB. The base model ships with 8GB RAM, but Apple specifically mentioned that memory is on SO-DIMMs.
I reached out to Apple about this and was told: "Yes, Mac mini is configurable up to 64GB and uses industry-standard DDR4 SO-DIMMs. While we don't consider the memory directly end-user accessible, service providers can access the internals of the Mac mini to upgrade the memory."
This is the best of both worlds, because Apple's RAM upgrades cost $200 to go to 16GB, $600 to go to 32GB, and a whopping $1,400 to go to 2666MHz DDR 4-based 64GB RAM.
If RAM is upgradeable after purchase, this is a big thing. A quick look at the Crucial site today (RAM prices change constantly) show that that same 64GB upgrade can be had for $879, $521 less than Apple charges. Even better, it means you can get an affordable Mac mini and later, as your needs change, can grow your RAM footprint.
QuoteSTORAGE UP TO 2TB SSD FLASH
Storage also can be increased (but it looks like only during purchase). The base model starts with 128GB SSD flash storage (which is way faster than the spinning platters that used to ship on the old Mac minis and is also faster than the SSD upgrades I did to my Mac minis).
Upgrades cost $200 to go to 512GB, $600 to go to 1TB, and a painful $1,400 to go to 2TB SSD.
People will be pissed when they buy the model that has 128 GB SSD and find out they can never upgrade that to a larger SSD.
:facepalm:
Quote from: Joe on October 31, 2018, 05:12:00 PMPeople will be pissed when they buy the model that has 128 GB SSD and find out they can never upgrade that to a larger SSD.
:facepalm:
Apple would hate for anyone to buy a cheaper model from them and then upgrade themselves and give someone else those upgrade dollars! Of course Apple is thinking about you the customer.
Quote from: wonderings on November 01, 2018, 06:25:21 AMApple would hate for anyone to buy a cheaper model from them and then upgrade themselves and give someone else those upgrade dollars! Of course Apple is thinking about you the customer.
Gold old Apple. Always thinking of me! So in 6 months I find that an i3 CPU, 8 GB of RAM, and 128 GB SSD isn't enough computer so I'll go back and spring for the $4,199 model. And thank Apple for the experience. Brilliant. It could only be better if I had to stand in line in the bitter cold wet winter weather for two days to do it.
Internal HD space is not that much of an issue like it used to be, when you can buy a SSD external and plug it into via USB3, or Thunderbolt (whatever #). But still these units are too much in comparison to the iMacs for my 2 cents.
USB3 would be a bit slower than what an SSD can do.
USB 3.0 has a maximum bandwidth rate of 5 gbps while an SSD can do 6 gbps. Not a lot slower but a bit.
An SSD external connected via Thunderbolt can do 10 gbps.
The extra cost of Thunderbolt may not be worth it though.
Quote from: scottrsimons on November 01, 2018, 07:41:24 AMInternal HD space is not that much of an issue like it used to be, when you can buy a SSD external and plug it into via USB3, or Thunderbolt (whatever #). But still these units are too much in comparison to the iMacs for my 2 cents.
Part of the draw of these machines is the size and how little of it they take up. Same goes for the iMac. If you then have to start plugging in externals for your space then externals for your backup, plus anything else you might need plugged in it gets to be a real mess and that really nice simple sleek design is now an unsightly mess.
That was one issue with the current Mac Pro, few people want to plug in tons of externals, especially when the previous design which was amazing, beautiful and functional, let you swap in drives incredibly quick and easy. Not even mentioning the cost difference of buying a hard drive and buying an external hard drive all ready to be plugged in.
Yes, it's possible to upgrade a 2018 Mac mini's RAM. No, it's not easy (https://www.zdnet.com/article/yes-its-possible-to-upgrade-a-2018-mac-minis-ram-no-its-not-easy/?ftag=TRE-03-10aaa6b&bhid=20703142171098067451473055926429)
Trying to remember if that is similar to what I did years ago when I put in SSD's into 2 MacMinis. I remember I had to remove a lot just to get to where the hard drive is.
At least it can be done, though Apple is certainly not making it easy for the average user to be able to do.
https://youtu.be/2UrSLnnMyeg
I have replaced hard drives and ram in older mac minis and I never had to remove the logic (mother) board. It was a bit of a pain to get to the hard drive but nothing like this just for replacing the ram.
Quote from: wonderings on November 09, 2018, 07:46:55 AMTrying to remember if that is similar to what I did years ago when I put in SSD's into 2 MacMinis. I remember I had to remove a lot just to get to where the hard drive is.
At least it can be done, though Apple is certainly not making it easy for the average user to be able to do.
https://youtu.be/2UrSLnnMyeg
Our son did ours when the spinning one died. He's always been someone who could persevere for a long time until he got there.
If I'd tried it may have ended up on the floor in bits, with me alongside it in the foetal position, sobbing quietly.
I had to get the 'special toolkit' in first. It was quite the fiddle, apparently.
... made possible by a YouTube tute first, of course.
Quote from: frailer on November 11, 2018, 05:46:18 PMQuote from: wonderings on November 09, 2018, 07:46:55 AMTrying to remember if that is similar to what I did years ago when I put in SSD's into 2 MacMinis. I remember I had to remove a lot just to get to where the hard drive is.
At least it can be done, though Apple is certainly not making it easy for the average user to be able to do.
https://youtu.be/2UrSLnnMyeg
Our son did ours when the spinning one died. He's always been someone who could persevere for a long time until he got there.
If I'd tried it may have ended up on the floor in bits, with me alongside it in the foetal position, sobbing quietly.
I had to get the 'special toolkit' in first. It was quite the fiddle, apparently.
... made possible by a YouTube tute first, of course.
I found the mac mini hard drive upgrade pretty straightforward, just followed a youtube video that went step by step. Now what is causing me to curl up in the fetal position is setting up a 3D printer I bought. Had it all put together and ready to level and print only to find the cross bar was not level. So many parts, so many screws and it is all foreign and new to me. Have to began a little tare down to figure out how to solve that problem.
Everything else on a Mac looks pretty simply in comparison.
I think the last workstations worth their money was G4's, they were pricey as ever, but were easy to deal with -except for the cubes :-p -
I don't think apple gives a penny for the graphic arts segment anymore, i wouldn't be surprised if i learned that desktop and laptop sold for strictly professional use wouldn't add up to more than 5% of apples total sales these days...
Quote from: motormount on November 12, 2018, 01:02:09 PMI think the last workstations worth their money was G4's, they were pricey as ever, but were easy to deal with -except for the cubes :-p -
I don't think apple gives a penny for the graphic arts segment anymore, i wouldn't be surprised if i learned that desktop and laptop sold for strictly professional use wouldn't add up to more than 5% of apples total sales these days...
They definitely do not care about the real pro market. If they did it would not have taken this long for their laptops to have more then 16 gigs of RAM. I loved the G4 design, I have 2 sitting in my basement collecting dust. I think they perfected it though with the Dual G5 tower. Amazing looking computer that I would say stands up to todays designs and super clean and easy to work with. Everything was right there and laid out much better then the G4.
I like their design better than g4'rs but they were much heavier and less roomier inside.
Intel macpro's were a little bit better in terms of ''architecture'' and those were the last pro macs i've seen inside printshops, when darth vader was announced they all gone to imac's ( or pc's ).
Quote from: motormount on November 13, 2018, 12:14:28 PMI like their design better than g4'rs but they were much heavier and less roomier inside.
Intel macpro's were a little bit better in terms of ''architecture'' and those were the last pro macs i've seen inside printshops, when darth vader was announced they all gone to imac's ( or pc's ).
We started with the old beige G3's this was before I officially worked in our shop (family business). When I started working I was a bit more aggressive in getting us up to date computer wise. We went from a one mac and multiple PC shop to 99.99% Mac save for a dedicated XP machine for a RIP that is still going strong after 10 years. Went to the Dual G4's and after that I kept one dual g4 workstation and I moved to a MacBook pro and then eventually upgraded both workstations to iMacs. Definitely better bang for the buck in my opinion considering the display that came with them. Even better now with the 5K considering it was the same price as a Mac Pro and equally specced for the what I need it to do and has a 5K monitor, adding that to a Mac Pro shoots the price up another couple thousand. I was hoping Apple was going to announce something last event but looks like there will be no talk about it till next year... if then. The supposed love and care Apple says they still have for the pro market seems to be all talk to keep pro users strung along.
This is not really relevant to the Mini, I don't believe, but it is an interesting twist on the new T2 chip, which is supposed to enhance security. It's also going to discourage "unauthorized" tinkering.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/11/apples-t2-chip-will-block-some-third-party-repairs-of-new-devices/
The war on user upgrades continues...
Apple is doing their best to drive users away from their platform.
Quote from: Joe on November 15, 2018, 09:35:28 AMThe war on user upgrades continues...
Apple is doing their best to drive users away from their platform.
I really hope people start standing up and voicing their frustration with Apple. Seems there is less demand for their iPhones. I was reading an article on CNET about Apples stock being down and production of their phones were not as high as were expected. Of course this has all happened before and they come back stronger then before.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4847/45896002961_806f0b52db_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2cVF1FT)big-brother-apple (https://flic.kr/p/2cVF1FT)
People usually vote with their wallets. Which appears to already be happening.
Our latest iMacs here (2015 models) can't have the hard drive swapped out unless you buy a kit from OWC or have Apple do it. Plus they now have the glass glued on instead of being held on by magnets like the previous version had so to change the hard drive out you have to have a special tool to cut the glue to get the glass off. Then remove the whole display to get to the hard drive. Then remove the hard drive. Then install the new hard drive from OWC with their "special" kit. Then re-install the display. Then put the glass back on. Oh yeah you will need some special double sided tape to keep the glass attached. And then I'll bet you start seeing screen artifacts since you removed the display that is very delicate.
When the time comes for new prepress computers it might be time to look elsewhere. :(
I can foresee a time coming when Apple's products will self destruct if anybody other than an Apple employee tries to mess with them. Each employee will have a magic Apple wand to wave over the item before and after repair, but it must be done within 10 seconds or poof!
Quote from: Joe on November 15, 2018, 12:58:49 PMPeople usually vote with their wallets. Which appears to already be happening.
Our latest iMacs here (2015 models) can't have the hard drive swapped out unless you buy a kit from OWC or have Apple do it. Plus they now have the glass glued on instead of being held on by magnets like the previous version had so to change the hard drive out you have to have a special tool to cut the glue to get the glass off. Then remove the whole display to get to the hard drive. Then remove the hard drive. Then install the new hard drive from OWC with their "special" kit. Then re-install the display. Then put the glass back on. Oh yeah you will need some special double sided tape to keep the glass attached. And then I'll bet you start seeing screen artifacts since you removed the display that is very delicate.
When the time comes for new prepress computers it might be time to look elsewhere. :(
The hard drive replacement is even worse, you can only put in what you had when you ordered it from Apple. If you had 1TB and wanted 2TB they will not do it. They are so set in this they will not accept your money to upgrade the most basic of things.
I am much more open to looking at non Apple options when I decide I want to upgrade. It will be full circle when that happens having taken our shop from majority PC to virtually all Macs and if Apple keeps doing what they are doing I will eventually be all PC again.
If you get the hard drive kit from OWC for the iMacs you can change the size of the drive. Not sure if that applies to other things like the Macbook Pro or iMac Pro.
Quote from: Joe on November 15, 2018, 03:36:10 PMIf you get the hard drive kit from OWC for the iMacs you can change the size of the drive. Not sure if that applies to other things like the Macbook Pro or iMac Pro.
That is not something I would never want to do. Removing that screen seems like no fun at all and one mess up and there goes the computer as it would probably be cheaper to buy new then to have Apple fix it... if they even would fix it.
Yeah on these I don't want to pull that display either. Even the last two times I've had a certified Apple repair place have to pull that display they have damaged it and then had to replace it. Which is why I do not have an SSD in my current Mac at home.
Not sure if the 2015 is that much different than the late 2013 21.5, but I was able to replace the drive in about 20 minutes. The hardest part was removing the left over adhesive strips before putting the new ones down. I used the OWC kit, and the drive had no special cables needed (my mid 2011 did need a special thermal sensor, but I think they dropped that nonsense when they went slim). It's stupid that Apple went with the adhesive instead of the magnets like on the older models. But it's actually pretty easy to get into.
Really considering going hackintosh for the eventual upgrades around here though. But, Intel's been dragging their heels and the newest processors actually aren't that much faster than what we currently have.
Quote from: Possum on November 15, 2018, 01:04:05 PMI can foresee a time coming when Apple's products will self destruct if anybody other than an Apple employee tries to mess with them. Each employee will have a magic Apple wand to wave over the item before and after repair, but it must be done within 10 seconds or poof!
It'll be own as The Banksy Upgrade.
Quote from: Joe on November 15, 2018, 12:58:49 PMPeople usually vote with their wallets. Which appears to already be happening.
Our latest iMacs here (2015 models) can't have the hard drive swapped out unless you buy a kit from OWC or have Apple do it. Plus they now have the glass glued on instead of being held on by magnets like the previous version had so to change the hard drive out you have to have a special tool to cut the glue to get the glass off. Then remove the whole display to get to the hard drive. Then remove the hard drive. Then install the new hard drive from OWC with their "special" kit. Then re-install the display. Then put the glass back on. Oh yeah you will need some special double sided tape to keep the glass attached. And then I'll bet you start seeing screen artifacts since you removed the display that is very delicate.
When the time comes for new prepress computers it might be time to look elsewhere. :(
Fascinating to look back on the rise/fall/rise of Apple. They've reached 'maturity'; got big, now protecting (trying to) protect their pricing/market share when their products exist in a much more homogeneous pool of stuff. IMO they've gone as well thus far because Micrsoft's products (particularly OS), are so crap.
I would not easily move away from OSX at my age.
All that drama, Amelio, Jobs' ousting, comeback, the wrench from OS9, Jobs' foresight on a Unix-based OS... all seems like just yesterday.
Quote from: frailer on November 18, 2018, 04:52:13 AMFascinating to look back on the rise/fall/rise of Apple. They've reached 'maturity'; got big, now protecting (trying to) protect their pricing/market share when their products exist in a much more homogeneous pool of stuff. IMO they've gone as well thus far because Micrsoft's products (particularly OS), are so crap.
I would not easily move away from OSX at my age.
All that drama, Amelio, Jobs' ousting, comeback, the wrench from OS9, Jobs' foresight on a Unix-based OS... all seems like just yesterday.
I could but as long as my owners are willing to pay for Macs we will keep using them. :grin:
Quote from: Joe on November 18, 2018, 09:21:49 AMI could but as long as my owners are willing to pay for Macs we will keep using them. :grin:
Now I have to wonder, as the PDF editing/correction tools keep getting better, will platform at some point really become irrelevant? It honestly wouldn't be
that hard to work on a Windows machine if all we're needed to do is preflight/fix PDFs.
Quote from: Slappy on November 18, 2018, 03:13:57 PMQuote from: Joe on November 18, 2018, 09:21:49 AMI could but as long as my owners are willing to pay for Macs we will keep using them. :grin:
Now I have to wonder, as the PDF editing/correction tools keep getting better, will platform at some point really become irrelevant? It honestly wouldn't be that hard to work on a Windows machine if all we're needed to do is preflight/fix PDFs.
Same here on the commercial prepress side as I spend 95% of my time in Acrobat with Pitstop and in Photoshop but we could certainly do that on Windows. My biggest fear would be some of these people using email on Windows machines. EEEEEEK!
Quote from: Joe on November 18, 2018, 10:54:59 PMMy biggest fear would be some of these people using email on Windows machines. EEEEEEK!
That is mine as well. I just feel, if you're not a huge corp "needing" a large IT staff, than stay away from Windows. Not that Windows by itself is the problem, it is the users, who are not careful that are the problem. At least with Macs, it helps quite a bit. Not that they can't get into trouble too, but in my experience, it is a lot less.