We're a little slow at the shop at the moment and I figured now would be a good time to do some cleanup on our XMF stripping templates and such and thought of this.
Out of curiosity, how do you guys have your presses setup in ColorPath Organizer? We have our various presses, then one linear media profile and one calibrated to g7 media profile.
I'm seeing auto creep in XMF is based on the media type, so the only way to do that is have additional media profiles correct? Is auto creep worth it? We've been doing manual creep for years (about 10 now) and I'm noticing it doesn't creep enough and that initial creep if the cover is on a different press and paper thickness moves everything way too much. Its not behaving as I would think it should.
Another question I have is in regards to plate/press setup. We have three sizes of the same plates 1030x800 0.3, 1030x790 0.3 and 737x600 0.3. Currently we have them set up as their own plate workflow item templates and I have seen that you can have your press drive what plate is selected (or narrowed down) by having the Press Profile Controls Press Geometry, however with this checked, nothing actually changes. I've tried telling it in the press profile the dimensions of plate on the right hand side of the window which match the left hand side for press specs, and match the sizes on our Luxel Javelin CTP, but if that right hand side has anything in there, nothing is selected and the plate dropdown is grayed out.
Generally, what happens in our shop is that a job will get setup one way, then paper/estimating will come back after a job has been proofed out and approved and tell us they're moving it to another press. When changing our press icon to a different press and same for the plate icon it removes our imposition and we have to start over. Anyway around that?
Thanks!
Aaron
Do you have license? fuji should be able to set up your different plates.
as for "them" changing presses, that has always been a problem.
Changing your press would mean different sheet marks, but your template should still work?
unless it's a completely different layout. (those bleepers) ;D
Creep, are you doing face only? are you using pagination layout?
It's a little more involved with pagination layout.
but weird that it is not working properly, if you want to post how your doing the creep
I can see if I'm doing it that way too.
Aaron,
For ColorPath Organizer we have both Coated and Uncoated Media profiles for both of our presses as well as Linear.
Mike Metroka
C&D Printing
Hi Aaron
Media Profile for each press > Coated / Matte / Uncoated > Cover/Text >Thickness of each stock
Auto Creep > Always on Saddle
Sheets > Sheet Setting > Auto Creep ON > Creep Factor > Set at .7 or .6 (Default of 1.0 = Too Much Creep) > Shift to Spine
Administration > System Preferences > Imposition Setting Option > Uncheck Box > Align marks to Outermost Signature when setting Creep > Marks will Move with Creep...with this Box Unchecked
Override Creep for Pages with Crossovers......Reading Order > Page Properties > Select Override Creep > Select Creep Adjustment Face Only (Crossover will be Perfect > image will be reduced as required for creep without affecting crossover alignment
Completed Job > Save As > Customer #01_48 Page Saddle > Saved Templates are not press specific
Good Luck
Quote from: Tracy on June 26, 2023, 10:42:40 AMDo you have license? fuji should be able to set up your different plates.
as for "them" changing presses, that has always been a problem.
Changing your press would mean different sheet marks, but your template should still work?
unless it's a completely different layout. (those bleepers) ;D
Creep, are you doing face only? are you using pagination layout?
It's a little more involved with pagination layout.
but weird that it is not working properly, if you want to post how your doing the creep
I can see if I'm doing it that way too.
Hey Tracy, we do have a license and maintenance contract.
When we change presses, we have to also change the plate icon (right click, the select a new preset - see attached)
For creep, we are usually using the default creep and telling it how thick our paper is with a negative value to shift to spine.
Quote from: metromike on June 27, 2023, 10:48:12 AMAaron,
For ColorPath Organizer we have both Coated and Uncoated Media profiles for both of our presses as well as Linear.
Mike Metroka
C&D Printing
We have a coated and linear. I don't know if that's due to licensing for the icc profile or lack of wanting to make more time to calibrate presses.
Quote from: Dinosaur on June 28, 2023, 09:59:14 AMHi Aaron
Media Profile for each press > Coated / Matte / Uncoated > Cover/Text >Thickness of each stock
Auto Creep > Always on Saddle
Sheets > Sheet Setting > Auto Creep ON > Creep Factor > Set at .7 or .6 (Default of 1.0 = Too Much Creep) > Shift to Spine
Administration > System Preferences > Imposition Setting Option > Uncheck Box > Align marks to Outermost Signature when setting Creep > Marks will Move with Creep...with this Box Unchecked
Override Creep for Pages with Crossovers......Reading Order > Page Properties > Select Override Creep > Select Creep Adjustment Face Only (Crossover will be Perfect > image will be reduced as required for creep without affecting crossover alignment
Completed Job > Save As > Customer #01_48 Page Saddle > Saved Templates are not press specific
Good Luck
Thanks Dinosaur, knowing the default setting of 1.0 on auto creep is too much. Playing around with the numbers, they're pretty close to what we were doing before with the default creep setting on the first tab.
I never put paper in my XMF, your using it way more than I do.
I did have to change presses too, Diddler showed me Pagination mode for different sheet sizes in the same job.
only used it a few times, but it works!
I do manual creep with FACE Only
Let us know your solution!
:)
Your Welcome Aaron
This setting you will find useful for visualizing the exact amount of creep....imposition templates & printed sheets
Administration > System Preferences > Imposition Setting Option > Uncheck Box > Align marks to Outermost Signature when setting Creep > Marks will Move with Creep...with this Box Unchecked
Stitched book can be under trimmed, allowing finish trim marks to bleed...if creep is correct....trim marks will align perfectly
Quote from: AaronH on June 23, 2023, 02:46:12 PMOut of curiosity, how do you guys have your presses setup in ColorPath Organizer? We have our various presses, then one linear media profile and one calibrated to g7 media profile.
We only have the single large Offset, so we have calibrated media curves for Coated & Uncoated. (The smaller QM & Jet Presses run linear, curves aren't useful.) Now, when we were jumping back & forth between actual plate manufacturers, I could dupe an old job in XMF then change the plate type & use the same curve as applied previously. Not sure if you could do the same for press changes - I would think that by applying the same curves through ColorPath to
all of those different plates would mean that changing them in XMF would be simple.
QuoteI'm seeing auto creep in XMF is based on the media type, so the only way to do that is have additional media profiles correct? Is auto creep worth it? We've been doing manual creep for years (about 10 now) and I'm noticing it doesn't creep enough and that initial creep if the cover is on a different press and paper thickness moves everything way too much. Its not behaving as I would think it should.
When we do creep, it's "Face Only" as Tracy mentioned. I typically set the amount in the Impo (-.005 inches) and I don't change it based on media. There's a negligible difference between 60/80/100#T for the size of books we'd do anyway.
Hey Tracy and Slappy, where do you see the option to Creep Face Only? I think I've not had enough coffee this morning to out-do my allergies.
I will screen shots in a bit I have to start up my server ;D
unless slappy gets it first
In the Reading order select all your pages and then select 4th icon to the right that looks like a piece pf paper
and then select override creep and face only
Imposition settings enter your default creep (same as you've been doing most likely)
Sheet Settings select Manual use Default creep (same as you've been doing most likely)
I choose not to move my marks with creep but with the guides you can clearly see the creep, the trim box will move
Hi Tracy...I have no experience using the manual creep....when you Override Creep > Face Only > does the Gutter Margin at Spine remain the same & image length is reduced to compensate for creep? I have only used..... Override Creep > Face Only when there is a Crossover...Thank You
I think it's the same concept as you are using it for a hookup (crossover)
instead of moving the whole page it reduces the face slightly (Not noticeable)
I am in a smaller shop so never needed anything automated, but it is interesting.
fyi: if you have a license you can call Fuji for ANYTHING, including layout
Thank You Tracy....yes we do have Fuji Support...I enjoy reading a response from an actual operator....Sometimes experts tend to respond with a Cryptic Riddle....this is simply the form of communication, they are most comfortable with.....Received XMF Training during System Installation...Trained with Auto Creep right from the beginning.....Largest saddle stitch so far is 14 x 8 page....auto creep works great...especially with the Override for the Hookups....learned new terminology today!....Thank You...all the Best
Oh that's really cool Tracy! Does the Face Only option scale as opposed to shift to spine?
I've only ever overridden creep to have no creep on pages that have crossovers but that can obviously cause other issues.
We're a smaller shop too, but we're going to be getting really busy soon so I was trying to figure out some things. We have about 30 employees including salesmen, 4 prepress techs though - one runs our digital Iridese presses and one makes plates. We're getting a 10 color, UV, perfecting 40" Komori in a month or so and we anticipate work scaling up.
That should be fun. Perfecting is kind of a bitch.
You doing spot UV, or just overall?
Quote from: AaronH on June 29, 2023, 03:37:59 PMOh that's really cool Tracy! Does the Face Only option scale as opposed to shift to spine?
It does, although as she mentioned above, even though I was pretty skeptical when I heard about that scaling I've never seen it be noticeable.
QuoteWe're getting a 10 color, UV, perfecting 40" Komori in a month or so and we anticipate work scaling up.
Ooooohhhhh, sexy! I haven't heard of a press install that size (at least locally) in years. Business must be good!
Quote from: Slappy on June 29, 2023, 04:58:45 PMQuoteWe're getting a 10 color, UV, perfecting 40" Komori in a month or so and we anticipate work scaling up.
Ooooohhhhh, sexy! I haven't heard of a press install that size (at least locally) in years. Business must be good!
Yeah business is going really well here. We're pretty excited for the potential capabilities this will have. The new press is huge, about 96 feet long so we're converting part of our warehouse to be a second press room, moving our paper storage into another portion of our building, adding more restrooms and so on. It's a big thing going on here.
Yes it does not shift, it scales, and when I said to select all pages in reading order
you can select just the pages you want if that is what you needed. I have never done that, but know that it works.
Holy Cow! 10 Color Perfector!!!!
with UV!!
Welcome to B4 Print Dinosaur!! :)
Yeah It's good to talk with people actually doing the work!!
Thank You for welcoming me Tracy & the Forum Community for the all the info...
40" Perfector is a Giant Leap in the Print Industry....Please keep us posted on the Installation Progress Aaron.....
Powerful Press....Capable of Gobbling up Truck Loads of Stock Daily.....A Plant Management Challenge & Opportunity......High Square Footage Requirements for Stock Inventory & Bindery......Powerful Sales, Bindery & Shipping Required to Match....Some plants with 40" Perfector Presses have two in house Platesetters for Insurance..... or back up plan.....Very Exciting & Demanding Management Responsibility....All the Best!
Quote from: Tracy on June 30, 2023, 07:22:03 AMYes it does not shift, it scales, and when I said to select all pages in reading order
you can select just the pages you want if that is what you needed. I have never done that, but know that it works.
Before I retired we changed all of our shingling to use scale instead of move. It is un-noticeable that it is scaled and we didn't have to use different shingling for spreads or normal pages.
works like a champ!
Quote from: Dinosaur on June 30, 2023, 08:25:07 AMThank You for welcoming me Tracy & the Forum Community for the all the info...
40" Perfector is a Giant Leap in the Print Industry....Please keep us posted on the Installation Progress Aaron.....
Powerful Press....Capable of Gobbling up Truck Loads of Stock Daily.....A Plant Management Challenge & Opportunity......High Square Footage Requirements for Stock Inventory & Bindery......Powerful Sales, Bindery & Shipping Required to Match....Some plants with 40" Perfector Presses have two in house Platesetters for Insurance..... or back up plan.....Very Exciting & Demanding Management Responsibility....All the Best!
Thanks Dinosaur! We're pretty excited. Our 640 hasn't had it's perfector working in over a decade so we're pretty excited about it. We're keeping it as a backup press. Nice thing is to 1040 and the 640 use the exact same plates (Thank you Komori) so if we have to move presses for whatever reason we can.
We've only got one Javelin plate setter, but there's another shop here in town that can make plates for us if ours goes down. We finally made the change to processless plates this spring so we're thankfully not having another machine to maintain in prepress anymore.
And also, welcome to the forum!
Quote from: Tracy on June 30, 2023, 07:22:03 AMYes it does not shift, it scales, and when I said to select all pages in reading order
you can select just the pages you want if that is what you needed. I have never done that, but know that it works.
Holy Cow! 10 Color Perfector!!!!
with UV!!
Welcome to B4 Print Dinosaur!! :)
Yeah It's good to talk with people actually doing the work!!
Right? its a big press! We're super excited for it. Thanks for your help with creep!
Quote from: AaronH on June 29, 2023, 03:37:59 PMWe're getting a 10 color, UV, perfecting 40" Komori in a month or so and we anticipate work scaling up.
Aaron, What kind of color control will it have?
Quote from: johnny_jay on June 30, 2023, 12:04:00 PMQuote from: AaronH on June 29, 2023, 03:37:59 PMWe're getting a 10 color, UV, perfecting 40" Komori in a month or so and we anticipate work scaling up.
Aaron, What kind of color control will it have?
I believe it is going to have a automatic scanner, hand scanner and CIP.