Preps 7: making spot colours white on pdf output

[DPSprint]

I have this annoying issue that pops up from time to time... has happened for years, I just flatten the files to fix it, but that only helps If I see it before print!

Pdf file output from preps, with a spot colour, are showing that spot colour as white (not invisible because when I check the pdf wireframe the objects are there). The spot colour object wont print to the digital rip either.
Of course flattening the file (or converting to process) before imposing fixes it but once again its another thing I need to visually check on the preps output file (like that wierd vignette text issue).
Oddly enough it shows correct on the preps preview window before print.
Occasionally one spot colour will do this and another one in the same file will be fine. (I had a spot colour logo that lost its inside colour, but the outside spot colour was fine)

 As a general rule I dont convert spot colours before imposing them, usually let the printers rip determine its process colour equivalent as it can change the colour a bit... but once again I am starting to think I should.

This particular file is even more irritating as its the third version from the client and the first two were fine and didnt have the preps output issue, so I am trying to see what may be different about the third file (if anything... I cant see anything so far)... or is it just preps being a f...ktard?

I have found another person with the issue from an old thread but the 'fix' didnt work for me at all.
http://www.mygua.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6544

Anyone who wants to look at the file or have any ideas?

[Ear]

Is the original PDF compatible with spot output? Because a good ol PDF 1.4 will not handle all spot colors. Might not be the problem, but if it isn't at least PDF 1.6, it should be a problem.

[Joe]

DPSprint, I think the issues you are seeing with Preps is why most people don't impose 'FAT' files. FAT meaning feeding it the high res PS in days gone by but now PDF. In older PS workflows people rarely fed FAT PS files into Preps. The workflow they were using would create low res eps files that you would impose within preps and the workflow would swap out the low res data with the high res PS.

Prinergy still works kind of the same way. When we create an imposition Prinergy creates a pageset in Prinergy but the imposition is actually done with out any source PDF and then sent into Prinergy as a .pjtf or .jdf file where Prinergy then adds in the high res PDF data.

Preps has never handled high res (FAT) PDF's very well. Meaning PDF's with live transparency, spots, etc...

If you don't have an actual workflow that does this for you then something like a PDF impostion plug-in for Acrobat might be a much better option to use for imposition in the way you work than trying to feed Preps (FAT) PDF's.

I know some people here have Quite Imposing Plus. Runs $899 US.

[DPSprint]

Is the original PDF compatible with spot output? Because a good ol PDF 1.4 will not handle all spot colors. Might not be the problem, but if it isn't at least PDF 1.6, it should be a problem.

There have been several file revisions, first two worked fine, last one had the issue... all are 1.4, same spot colour on all.
If I had a choice about pdf version yeah I would ask for a later version, but usually there is no option.

Joe: so you mean a typical pdf of 2017 full of all the usual spots transparencies etc doesnt work well with preps 7 standalone? LOL How surprising!
No we dont run a workflow as such, just me.
 
I have used Quite before (not the plus though), but not for a few years, and it was massively worse to use than preps was then.... and that was probably preps 5
How does it work with things like colour bars and plate marks (I cant actually remember)? as the imposed files go to both offset and digital rips.
 I have also used dynastrip.... oh boy

And its not a huge issue, just frustrating if I miss it though.
And I have often thought of changing imposition software but i do have a lot of templates and wonder if It would cause more issues changing? Preps is only a wee bit broken after all...


I will probably try to send the issue to Kodak ... again... although i am still trying to get the account actually activated, its only been a year and they sent me a message saying it was done last week... only for me to try to change the address to mine and it come back with the same 'account not completely setup error' again... sheesh they are seriously useless

[Joe]

Joe: so you mean a typical pdf of 2017 full of all the usual spots transparencies etc doesnt work well with preps 7 standalone? No we dont run a workflow as such, just me LOL

Your output PDF's can answer that for me.

I will probably try to send the issue to Kodak ... again... although i am still trying to get the account actually activated, its only been a year and they sent me a message saying it was done last week... only for me to try to change the address to mine and it come back with the same 'account not completely setup error' again... sheesh they are seriously useless

So are you trying to get your account straightened out at the Partner Place or the GUA forum. If it is Partner Place I think you can only get support if you have a maintenance agreement with the big K.

So let me try to understand your self made workflow. You get the PDF from the customer and you then take the PDF's and put them in Preps and from Preps you output a new imposed PDF via this:

[attachimg=1 width=400]

What does the screen below look like for your spots?

[attachimg=2 width=400]

Are your spot colors named with proper Pantone names. I know it can screw up a spot in Prinergy if a custmers give their spot colors custom names. If Prinergy can't find the right name in the spot color database it will sometimes be white. Or sometimes black. But it has problems with custom named spot colors.

I am trying to make a 32 page imposed PDF from Preps 8 right now just as a test. It is taking forever. If I impose it through Prinergy it takes about 20 seconds. So far it as been trying to make the imposed PDF for 17 minutes. 

[Joe]

It seems it has locked up at this point trying to make the imposed PDF.

[attachimg=1 width=400]

[DPSprint]

Your output PDF's can answer that for me.

What does the screen below look like for your spots?


Are your spot colors named with proper Pantone names. I know it can screw up a spot in Prinergy if a custmers give their spot colors custom names. If Prinergy can't find the right name in the spot color database it will sometimes be white. Or sometimes black. But it has problems with custom named spot colors.

I am trying to make a 32 page imposed PDF from Preps 8 right now just as a test. It is taking forever. If I impose it through Prinergy it takes about 20 seconds. So far it as been trying to make the imposed PDF for 17 minutes. 

Yes workflow pretty much as described.
This only ever happens with correctly named pantone colours... I usually convert spot colours to process unless they are named pantone colours

this is the print boxes for the files

most of the preps files print pretty quick but the occasional ones can take awhile

[Joe]

OK...the one that didn't work? Does it work if you convert the spots to CMYK with Pitstop before you put the pages in Preps?

And have you tried, in Preps print settings, letting Preps convert the spots to CMYK?

And as a last resort only....have you tried printing a .ps from Preps and then distilling it?

[DPSprint]

OK...the one that didn't work? Does it work if you convert the spots to CMYK with Pitstop before you put the pages in Preps?
Yes that works...

And have you tried, in Preps print settings, letting Preps convert the spots to CMYK?
yes and no it didnt work... which did surprise me

And as a last resort only....have you tried printing a .ps from Preps and then distilling it?

Havent tried the ps from preps at all... usually I just fix it in pitstop

just tried the ps from preps and no it didnt work

[Joe]

The thing is that both Preps 7 and Preps 8 are still using the old Preps 6 engine for processing PDF's and when Preps 6 was released there wasn't a whole lot of PDF's using spot colors and transparency. I really think this a problem with Preps not understanding content in a PDF created today that didn't exist back when Preps 6 was released. And I think Kodak is relying on the new technology within workflow software to process the files because Preps isn't able to handle it. I just don't think Preps is able to handle it on its own without a workflow doing the heavy lifting.

I would be interested to know what happens if you would manually impose it in InDesign with the same pages that fail from Preps. I bet it wouldn't lose those spot colors. (OK I wouldn't bet actual money but I would bet a beer. )

[DPSprint]

thats ok, you can bet beer on that easy...
I actually had already tested that with the imposed file that didnt work and the result was...
indesign actually did it right! Why does that not surprise me... **ROLLS EYES**

I did wonder what engine preps 7 used.... so I guess they will never update it then? I suspect both issues I have with preps are caused by this.

 I am seriously considering a change to a different impo software

[Joe]

I think Kodaks sees Preps as part of Prinergy and not feeling a need to make it a stand alone PDF imposition software for use by itself. I mean it will do what you are doing. But can you trust it? From the problems you have posted I would say no.

[Joe]

Having said that I would still try to get Kodak involved in this and see what they say about those issues.

[Farabomb]

They'll say it's a feature, not a bug. If it affects you then impose in indesign and then send it through.

Oh, and can we have that check for $500,000.00 to cover this month's service agreement? You know, chapter 11 and all...

[Joe]

WOW! You must have the deluxe plan!