creep

[Tracy]

I have a job that im adding creep, dont remember the paper thickness, not too thick of paper it will be minimal creep,
the problem is i have a 1/4 inch bar on the outside of the pages and I have some image hookups on the inside. if i add creep so the inside pages move in are my hookups going to look weird? i dont see how moving the outside pages out will help because of the 1/4inch bar. i can view it before print without a problem on monday, but was wondering if someone else has experience doing this. oh and i will be adding creep in preps. manipulating native files not an option.
if i remember correctly 24pg plus cover

[DCurry]

Unless you are printing on very thick stock, I wouldn't even bother with creep on a 24-pager. I usually don't even think about it unless it's 36 or more unless there are elements that are super-close to the trim.

If I do add creep and there are crossover images, I'll figure out how much the affected pages are creeping and manually move the crossover photos away from the spine by that amount, so that when the creep is applied by Preps the image comes together.

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

Traci, my question would be, why would you need creep on a 24 page book? Even folded, there is no reason for it. If the paper is of "standard" weight, it would need to be over 72 pages to really need it. I add creep to books over 72 pages, but that all depends on your bindery. To adjust for creep, you need to find the actual mic thickness of the paper, take the total pages, and divide by two, then multiply that by the mic thickness. This tells you the final thickness of the book. Now divide this number by two, and place that number in the Inner and Outer fields. That will adjust the outside pages to work from the spine out to equal the final horizontal trim size, eg; 8.5" and work the inner pages towards the spine. Why you need creep? Take a stack of 50 or so pieces of paper equal size, now fold it in half... see the outer edge away from the spine, all that fanned paper? That is why.

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

Whoops! DCurry beat me too it.

[LoganBlade]

Traci, my question would be, why would you need creep on a 24 page book? Even folded, there is no reason for it. If the paper is of "standard" weight, it would need to be over 72 pages to really need it. I add creep to books over 72 pages, but that all depends on your bindery. To adjust for creep, you need to find the actual mic thickness of the paper, take the total pages, and divide by two, then multiply that by the mic thickness. This tells you the final thickness of the book. Now divide this number by two, and place that number in the Inner and Outer fields. That will adjust the outside pages to work from the spine out to equal the final horizontal trim size, eg; 8.5" and work the inner pages towards the spine. Why you need creep? Take a stack of 50 or so pieces of paper equal size, now fold it in half... see the outer edge away from the spine, all that fanned paper? That is why.

or if math not strong suit. fold a dummy book using paper and measure the fanned paper.

[Tracy]

im pretty good at figuring out the creep, and wouldnt think you would need it for a 24 pager either, but the bars (running vertical) on the outside edge did look bad the last time it ran, there may have been some other issues too.
my coworker (the one who doesnt work here anymore), set up this job and left the native files on the desktop of the mac that crashed i only have the postscript files on the brisque. thanks for all the input. ive never done creep manually . i will practice this when im slow. i do think i should be ok without creep on this one.
thanks for the info dcs, ive only used the inner fields on the creep, never have used the outer, ill have to check this out.

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

If the paper is 100 pound cover folded as a 24 pager, (Who would do that?) that might be why your face trim is getting lopped... talk to your bindery!

[Tracy]

yeah i was wondering if it was a bindery issue, its something like 80 lb text tho this should work.

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

Is the book 1" x 1"?

I'm kidding, i'm kidding. :evil:

[Tracy]

 :laugh:
I ususally add creep to 32 pagers and up.

[born2print]

We get these too, if you put in creep to keep the outer elements from pushing out, the crossovers are ruined. Usually we are able to go 0 creep and let the bars suffer a little. If the book was too big to ignore creep, we would prolly move the bars manually and still apply 0 creep.

[PrepressCrapFixer]

Traci, my question would be, why would you need creep on a 24 page book? Even folded, there is no reason for it. If the paper is of "standard" weight, it would need to be over 72 pages to really need it. I add creep to books over 72 pages, but that all depends on your bindery. To adjust for creep, you need to find the actual mic thickness of the paper, take the total pages, and divide by two, then multiply that by the mic thickness. This tells you the final thickness of the book. Now divide this number by two, and place that number in the Inner and Outer fields. That will adjust the outside pages to work from the spine out to equal the final horizontal trim size, eg; 8.5" and work the inner pages towards the spine. Why you need creep? Take a stack of 50 or so pieces of paper equal size, now fold it in half... see the outer edge away from the spine, all that fanned paper? That is why.

DCS, I will admit at the time I started calculating and applying creep to my Apogee S1 workflow I was very green and didn't entirely understand the way it worked.  I calculate the total page count by 4 then multiply that number by the thickness of the paper.  I put that amount only in the Inner field.  Is there something better about using both the Inner and Outer fields?  I'm not looking to debate but rather discover a better way to do things.

Thanks in advance,

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

The method you are using is Agfa's method and will work, (I remember Agfa's Creep FAQ, they had that method and a few others). However, it only applies shingling to the inner field, not taking into account the outer field at all. Fold a thick stack of paper in half, and argue with me you don't need outer creep. The key to creep is to KNOW what you are doing for sure, so that you can question shit like this. I have done all the tests... what works for me and my bindery, is what works for me and my bindery. What works for you... that will depend on what your bindery wants.

[PrepressCrapFixer]

 :cool:  Thanks for the reply.  I will have to look into your method a little and do some testing to see what we get.  You truly are knowledgeable.

[Joe]

Traci, my question would be, why would you need creep on a 24 page book? Even folded, there is no reason for it. If the paper is of "standard" weight, it would need to be over 72 pages to really need it. I add creep to books over 72 pages, but that all depends on your bindery. To adjust for creep, you need to find the actual mic thickness of the paper, take the total pages, and divide by two, then multiply that by the mic thickness. This tells you the final thickness of the book. Now divide this number by two, and place that number in the Inner and Outer fields. That will adjust the outside pages to work from the spine out to equal the final horizontal trim size, eg; 8.5" and work the inner pages towards the spine. Why you need creep? Take a stack of 50 or so pieces of paper equal size, now fold it in half... see the outer edge away from the spine, all that fanned paper? That is why.

DCS, I will admit at the time I started calculating and applying creep to my Apogee S1 workflow I was very green and didn't entirely understand the way it worked.  I calculate the total page count by 4 then multiply that number by the thickness of the paper.  I put that amount only in the Inner field.  Is there something better about using both the Inner and Outer fields?  I'm not looking to debate but rather discover a better way to do things.

Thanks in advance,

Hey DCS, I'd like to know about this too. I'm sure it is working for you and your bindery but I have to admit it's got me a little confused. The inner number start the creep at the middle of the book and calculates the creep distance towards the outer pages until it reaches zero at the front and back page. In our case we enter a negative value to shift the pages towards the gutter. If you enter a value in the outer fields to start moving the outer pages wouldn't that work against the inner value? If there is a benefit to doing it this way I'd like to know too.