Prinergy 1st Refines Questions

Started by Johny R, May 11, 2018, 11:12:02 AM

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Johny R

Quick question, do you folks have separate 1st refines set up for different ICC colour spaces (ie Gracol, Swop etc...)? I've tasked my untrained self with getting our shops colour in some kind of order and figured this would be the place to start.
My thoughts are to have the operators output PDF's from Indesign tagged with one of several ICC Profiles depending on the press the job will run on, then 1st refine those PDF's with the same baked in profile, having separate refines pre-set up for them to use. Currently our jobs use a refine with WebCoated Swop as a primary color output destination.
Any thoughts or examples on this would be appreciated.
Thanks

johnny_jay

We do not. We refine the files as they are and do not assign any ICC profiles. The only ICC profiles we use are assigned when outputting hard proofs or press proof.
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DigiCorn

Back when I used Prinergy, our guy in charge set up the refine process to strip all ICC profiles from files so as not to be an issue. Proofs were made using our curves and not customer curves. I was just a lackey there, so I don't know a lot about how it was programmed, but that was what I was told.
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

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Johny R

Quote from: johnny_jay on May 11, 2018, 11:41:00 AMWe do not. We refine the files as they are and do not assign any ICC profiles. The only ICC profiles we use are assigned when outputting hard proofs or press proof.

How do you get around the "Convert to Destination - Primary Color Output" part in the ColorConvert section of the refine? Leave it on a wide gamut profile like gracol?
J

Johny R

Quote from: DigiCorn on May 11, 2018, 11:49:25 AMBack when I used Prinergy, our guy in charge set up the refine process to strip all ICC profiles from files so as not to be an issue. Proofs were made using our curves and not customer curves. I was just a lackey there, so I don't know a lot about how it was programmed, but that was what I was told.

I didn't know that was possible truthfully to completed strip all profiles, but I would think once a PDF is created with say a Webuncoated profile would have it's colour changed to that space during creation and even if the profile was removed the colour values would remain and may not reproduce properly on a device set to Gracol. 

Of course I may be wrong though and may be overthinking things...

DigiCorn

I know on Rampage™ (R.I.P.  :tombstone: ), unless you purchase the additional module that maintains ICCs, it cannot apply an ICC profile to any jobs, and my understanding was that it strips existing ICC profiles from jobs. I did use ICC profile for our shop, but only on the proofer (using EFI Color, pre-XF).

Where I'm at now, we have no presses and anything that requires that kind of volume goes out. We are strictly digital now and don't use ICCs; it's all down-and-dirty, take it or leave it.
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

johnny_jay

#6
We strip them as well. We also GCR.

We then convert to SWOP Coated.
Kodak Prinergy and InSite
Preps
Epson P7000 driven by Fiery XF
Screen 16000N
Screen R36000ZX
3 web presses, 1 sheetfed press
G7 Expert

Joe

Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

Joe

As far as how the PDF's are made...we encourage customers to use our job options file we supply them with. Basically PDF X4 with the only change being zip compression instead of jpeg and the latest pdf version available. We don't want them outputting for any special conditions.
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

DPSprint

generally we strip out ICC profiles here as well... the digital indigo only really 'understands' SWOP profile and anything else will produce 'unexpected' results (i.e weird at best!)
For Offset, generally i strip them out as well... although with the new rip its probably not so necessary now, but the old rip we had some crazy stuff happen with some embedded profiles, so figured best to remove. All offset work has a digital proof, customer approves first and the press(s) matches fairly well.

Johny R

Thanks for the replies, it seems I don't have the options to strip the profiles... (Prinergy 7)

Is anyone still using PDFX 1a 2001?

Joe

Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

DPSprint

Quote from: Johny R on May 14, 2018, 05:20:33 AMThanks for the replies, it seems I don't have the options to strip the profiles... (Prinergy 7)

Is anyone still using PDFX 1a 2001?
strip out profiles using Pitstop if you have it? thats how we do it (we dont use Prinergy)