In Preps 5, you could print a specific range and even a specific side of an imposition. Is there a way to do that in Preps 7? :huh:
I don't think you can. Save and Return to Prinergy does the whole imposition.
Isn't this screenshot evidence that it's possible?
He is launching Preps from Prinergy and there is no "Print" under the file menu at that point. The only option is to Save and Return to Prinergy.
Correct Joe.
I am really going to miss this option. :tantrum:
Msaybe we have different options or something, but when I launch Preps from Prinergy the option is there for me. Am I doing something different? (Tools>Start Imposition Application).
DCurry-
You mean you can print specific signatures after you created the imposition?
I can print from 7 (when launched from Prinergy)
Quote from: DCurry on November 20, 2015, 10:08:01 AMMsaybe we have different options or something, but when I launch Preps from Prinergy the option is there for me. Am I doing something different? (Tools>Start Imposition Application).
No, create imposition or edit an existing one and have it to open Preps to create it. There are no options to print.
Prinergy 7.0.1 and Preps 7.1.3.
I don't really consider that as "printing" from Preps, then. It's really just using a Preps-like interface to generate the impo.
If you only want 1 side to process, can't you just select the desired side under the Signatures tab and do whatever you're doing to just what is selected? I do it all the time.
Quote from: DCurry on November 20, 2015, 10:41:34 AMIf you only want 1 side to process, can't you just select the desired side under the Signatures tab and do whatever you're doing to just what is selected? I do it all the time.
Nope, it opens the whole imposition and yes you are correct, it isn't printing from Preps that way. There is no user interface that even pops up. Just a straight "save" the whole imposition. I wish I could just do a single side at times. We have registration diamonds for the press that have to be moved around so it isn't in any bleed from pages and if we only have to move them on one side it generates the whole imposition again and if you had previously generated VPS files you have to re-generate ALL of them again as editing an imposition also deletes any previously created VPS files.
Quote from: DCurry on November 20, 2015, 10:41:34 AMIf you only want 1 side to process, can't you just select the desired side under the Signatures tab and do whatever you're doing to just what is selected? I do it all the time.
How?
We don't actually "print" from Prinergy at any time. Everything we do is driven by a process template. So, if I'm setting up a job for our digital press, I refine the PDF, make and populate a page set, then create a new imposition. Once the impo is created, I go to the Signatures tab, click on the signature and then click the desired process template. In this case, it will generate an imposed PDF and put it wherever I need it to go (we have different ones that will write the file directly to the digital press's queue, and some that write the file to the job.)
If I only want the fronts to be generated, I just expand the signature list until I can see the front and back of the sig, then only select the front, then proceed.
Yeah we do that too at output but I think what he is wanting to do is just make a change to one sig or side of the imposition within Preps and have that change put back into Prinergy on just that sig or side. Granted if you have already output plates you would only re-output the plates for the sig/side that changed.
I still don't follow how that would involve a "print" step, but I know there are other ways to use Prinergy than what I'm doing.
I understand there are many ways to handle impositions. It appears the way we used to be able to process them in Preps 5 is no longer an option in Preps 7. Thanks for all the input.
Quote from: DCurry on November 20, 2015, 12:22:36 PMI still don't follow how that would involve a "print" step, but I know there are other ways to use Prinergy than what I'm doing.
It doesn't. In Preps 7 / Prinergy 7 it is "Save and Return to Prinergy". We actually don't impose in Preps anymore. We just use the Prinergy Signature Selection Tool to select templates and that creates the imposition. Really the only thing we use Preps for is to create/edit templates.
Yeah, we only use Preps for template creation/editing as well. We're on Prinergy 6 - does it not have "Save and Return to Prinergy"? I've never seen that button in the signature selection.
No, the "Save and Return to Prinergy" is in Preps where the "Print" option used to be/still is if launched standalone.
The sig selection tool just has an OK button.
We do things different here so this is a dumbass question. Are there not templates or something created that can be opened manually in preps when using the auto impo stuff in prinergy? I know the template can be modified for the automation but then its a new template. I still use preps as standalone and there's a file I can open and do with as I please.
I'm cool with adding some useful automation, but damn ya don't remove stuff when the program it's automating can already do stuff.
oh. Kodak, never mind.
You can still work the old way, Mikie. Joe has helped me immensely with my recent transition. We have lots of templates that contain different forms within, and while we rarely need to edit a form, we often need to add one to an existing template.
In those situations, I open the template, which really will open up as an untitled Preps job. The first thing I do is to save the Preps job to my desktop (as a temporary measure only - this frees you up to mess with the forms within and rename them if needed). Then I add my form, and when I'm done I Save As Template and overwrite the original template. So far, this seems to be the least painful way to keep using what we've got and using our existing workflow without having to reinvent the wheel.
I still hate Preps 7. There are plenty of things that just take more time to do than they did in 5.
Quote from: Mikie on November 20, 2015, 07:26:29 PMWe do things different here so this is a dumbass question. Are there not templates or something created that can be opened manually in preps when using the auto impo stuff in prinergy? I know the template can be modified for the automation but then its a new template. I still use preps as standalone and there's a file I can open and do with as I please.
I'm cool with adding some useful automation, but damn ya don't remove stuff when the program it's automating can already do stuff.
oh. Kodak, never mind.
RBA (automation) doesn't interact with Preps in any way other than selecting existing Preps templates as far as In know. At least I haven't seen it do that if it can. Imposition automation is a real crap shoot and all of the planets and stars have to be aligned perfectly with the sun to cast a shadow in the shape of a giant K over Burnaby, BC for it to work properly.
Also I agree with Dan...Preps 5 was so much better to use for working with templates. I assume they changed it to its present Preps6/7 interface to make it JDF compliant with folding patterns. I have yet to use a folding pattern on a live job. It's like creating a complete new template from scratch every time you need to impose a job. And then the next time you need it you have to create it all from scratch again. Lather, rinse, repeat. :puke:
Heck we still use 7 like we did 5, with the added .job bs lol. We save as template and then print the jtf and pdf file. Those files are what we use for automation(using prejobs) and really it's what all us old folks understand here :p
"save and return to Prinergy?" Preps sucks as is, damn sure not letting Kodak push the buttons.
You're really not automating if you are manually imposing. :tongue:
You Kodak whore :p
All this talk is making me happy about being in the dark ages of prinergy.
We are going through Prinergy upgrade training. Our trainer has indicated that the ability to "Print" specific signature ranges out of Preps will return in Prinergy/Preps 7.5. :banana:
He informed us that we are not the first to ask about it. As a matter of fact, in his last training session, someone asked the same question.
:mademyday:
With my history with Kodak I believe you accidentally added a decimal point to Preps 75. :grin:
Quote from: jmaciag on November 25, 2015, 01:12:38 PMWe are going through Prinergy upgrade training. Our trainer has indicated that the ability to "Print" specific signature ranges out of Preps will return in Prinergy/Preps 7.5. :banana:
He informed us that we are not the first to ask about it. As a matter of fact, in his last training session, someone asked the same question.
:mademyday:
I've heard a lot of promises from Kodak people about version 7.5. If they fix/add everything they say they will there will never be a need for another version after that. Keep dangling that carrot in front of us Kodak. You know we'll keep chasing it.
How/Can you rename a signature in Preps 7?
Right Click the sig:
[attachimg=1]
actually, i figured it out seconds after i posted. Under Press Runs List, click on the signature name and it allows you to change it there too.
...so how do you handle it when you have a form with multiple lots, some which require an independent page, and it creates additional sections and screws up your form numbering on the job identifier?
I found doing multiple impositions and merging the sections works, but the powers that be don't like that solution.
anyone? Bueller?
are you trying to get a specific name to appear in the job identifier?
We usually use the "signature naming", put whatever you want there, and then use a text string to put that into the identifier.
like this one here:
$[Compound_%jobname%_$SigName_Side_$Side]
where you see "$SigName" is what will appear in the identifier from what you have in the signature name field.
I have to admit I wasn't sure what you were talking about either.
Quote from: david on January 04, 2016, 05:53:08 PMare you trying to get a specific name to appear in the job identifier?
We usually use the "signature naming", put whatever you want there, and then use a text string to put that into the identifier.
like this one here:
$[Compound_%jobname%_$SigName_Side_$Side]
where you see "$SigName" is what will appear in the identifier from what you have in the signature name field.
it's the $SigName that's screwed up
how do you have the text string formatted?
from looking at your screen capture you don't appear to be using that part of the code
$jobid Form-$sig Side-$side $date $time $[color]
Since I have never really worked with others before, maybe I don't know the proper terms/vernacular. To me, each part in an imposition is a signature, but here they have multiple signatures on a single Form (they call each part of an imposition a Form). If you have multiple "sections" from Preps on a Form, then the Form number gets messed up.
However, if you open arrow click on part of your imposition, you can turn it into an independent page without adding a new section (or creating a dual imposition and merging the sections), so that solves the issue.
Over here a sig is a whole imposed sheet normally. I have a feeling if I did a 16pg laid out as parallel 8's bindery would call that 2 sigs but for me it's just a 16 with a different fold pattern.
In Preps you can do a multi sig imposition where there are actually two separate sigs coming of the press. We run a lot of them on the web presses where we run two separate 16, 24, or 32 on the same press run. You can assign any pages in the imposition to each sig. Or you can assign the same pages to both sigs if you want and run the job 2 up. You can also have the text identifier for both sigs so the press knows which sigs are on the run. And Collation Marks know what sig each should be in the press run.
When I was typing it did make sense to have 2 sigs on a sheet. I do it with my parallel 8 on a 16 pg form. It breaks down to 2 sigs in bindery.
Now if you asked the boss what a 16pg sheet that's being folded as 8's is, 4 times 2 times it would be one sig, 2 times it would be 2 sigs.
We may not do it right here but we get it done.
I just spent 4 hours tracking down a issue where my proofs were right and the press sheet was right. Turns out the guy packing the box is a moron. I will admit it was a little confusing but you have a print out with the fronts and backs and qty. At least he didn't try and weasel his way out of it as in the norm for him.
Quote from: Joe on January 06, 2016, 08:31:43 AMIn Preps you can do a multi sig imposition where there are actually two separate sigs coming of the press. We run a lot of them on the web presses where we run two separate 16, 24, or 32 on the same press run. You can assign any pages in the imposition to each sig. Or you can assign the same pages to both sigs if you want and run the job 2 up. You can also have the text identifier for both sigs so the press knows which sigs are on the run. And Collation Marks know what sig each should be in the press run.
How do you do that? It comes up here on the 130 sometimes.
[attachimg=1 width=200 align=left] This is a sample saddlestitch with a 32 page imposition as two separate 16 page sections. To make multiple sections you enter number of sections as circled in the image. Then ion the left you will see the sections.
[attachimg=2 width=200 align=left] [attachimg=3 width=200 align=right] If you click on the section name on the left it will highlight the pages that belong to that section.
When you number the pages you would number each signature 1 - 16. After that though, looking at the large numbers in the impo, it looks like it is an ordinary 32 page sig but on multi-section impos look at the small numbers and not the large ones. The small numbers for each section are numbered 1-16. When you go to number it with the numbering tool you select which section to number as shown below.
[attachimg=4 width=200] [attachimg=5 width=200]
[attachimg=1 width=200 align=left]Then when you go to impose you click the name of the press run and click the Signature button as shown to the left.
[attachimg=2 width=200 align=left] That opens the Book section where you can assign your section to any group of pages. For example you could leave it like it is and the first section would be 1-8 and 25-32 and the second section would be 9 - 24 as it is a saddlestitch book. If it were perfect bound the first section would be 1 - 16 and the second section would be 17 - 32. Or you could make both sections A1 and A1 and that would create 2 16 page sections with 1 - 8 and 25 - 32 (2 up) for a SS or 1 - 16 (2 up) for a PB.
Okay - I did know how to do that, but that's what screws up the form numbering on the screenshots I posted earlier, where it throws it off by +1 the number of sections you have. For example, on your 32 pages, if you ran 4 long 8s and had each one a different section on Form 1, $sig would come back as Form 1, but on Form 2, $sig would come back as Form 5.
It shouldn't. In my example it is 2 16's and not 8's but either way it should work. In my example I would add the text ID on the sheet twice:
Job: $[impplanname] Sig: $sig - $side Web: $web $date $time $COLOR
The first one assigned to sig 1 and the second one assigned to sig 2. When output the first one would show as Sig: 1 - A on the front, Sig: 1 - B on the back and the second one would be Sig: 2 - A on the front and Sig: 2 - B on the back. In my imposition if I duplicated the sheet 10 times that would give me 20 sections. And they would be numbered 1 through 20. Not sure how yours are jumping from 2 to 5
In your earlier screen shot you have sig 11 selected and it shows as Form 11. Should it not be like that?
You have 9 press runs but 3 of them are multi-sections giving you a total of 12 signatures. It looks right to me.
Or are those not setup as multi-section but it makes them appear that they are because of the independent page? Why are you using an independent page? Different page size from the others?
Quote from: Joe on January 06, 2016, 08:42:04 PMIn your earlier screen shot you have sig 11 selected and it shows as Form 11. Should it not be like that?
You have 9 press runs but 3 of them are multi-sections giving you a total of 12 signatures. It looks right to me.
Or are those not setup as multi-section but it makes them appear that they are because of the independent page? Why are you using an independent page? Different page size from the others?
They are Independent pages because they are ganged items of different sizes. I am thinking we need to use $[implanname] instead of $sig because the powers that be here want pressrun 9/aka form nine to read "9" on the mark and not "11." I have a perfect example to test out right now. I'll check back in a bit when I'm done.
$[impplanname] will just give you the name of your imposition plan. I don't think that will get you there.
Quote from: DigiCorn on January 04, 2016, 07:01:29 PMQuote from: david on January 04, 2016, 05:53:08 PMare you trying to get a specific name to appear in the job identifier?
We usually use the "signature naming", put whatever you want there, and then use a text string to put that into the identifier.
like this one here:
$[Compound_%jobname%_$SigName_Side_$Side]
where you see "$SigName" is what will appear in the identifier from what you have in the signature name field.
it's the $SigName that's screwed up
Are you sure you are using $SigName. That should give you the Press Run name which is Press Run 9 in your example. $Sig gives you the actual sig number which is what I think you are using since it is returning 11.
I think you could also use the Prinergy variable mark $[Sheet] as that should give you the sheet number which I think would be 9 as well. Kodak advises not mixing Preps variable marks and Prinergy variable marks in the same mark though. Look in Prinergy Help for Prinergy variable text marks. There is a slew of them. A lot more than Preps has.
hmm... my thoughts didn't work...
Let's say I have 48 4.25x7 pages on a s/w form. They are broken up into 4 sections (signatures) of 12 pages each. What string would I use so that in Section 1(A2), it will read: Sig 2, Section 2 (A3): Sig 3, Section 3 (A4): Sig 4 and Section 4 (A5): Sig 5 - FTR Section 1, Sig 1 is the cover; it's a saddle stitch book. Right now we place a text mark and manually type, "Sig 2," etc.
Normally we don't do this in sections; I was just trying it out.
I'm kind of confused now by that question. Lets go back to your earlier example...
In your earlier example you had A1 thru A5 in Press Run 1 through 5. Press run 6 had both A6 & A7, Press Run 7 had A8, Press Run 8 had A10 & A9, and Press Run 9 had A11 & A12. If you only put one text mark on the sheet using $Sig it will put, in your example Form-1 thru 5 on Sheet 1 thru 5. Run 6 will have Form 6 because you only had one mark on the sheet and it by default is assigned to the lowest number section (A6). Run 7 will have Form-8. Run 8 will have Form-10 (or 9...not sure exactly which it will have---the first section listed or the lowest number) and run 9 will have Form-11. If you change that mark from $Sig to $SigName I think the sheets for press Run 1 thru 9 will have Form 1 thru 9 on it.
Quote from: Joe on January 06, 2016, 09:22:49 PMI'm kind of confused now by that question. Lets go back to your earlier example...
In your earlier example you had A1 thru A5 in Press Run 1 through 5. Press run 6 had both A6 & A7, Press Run 7 had A8, Press Run 8 had A10 & A9, and Press Run 9 had A11 & A12. If you only put one text mark on the sheet using $Sig it will put, in your example Form-1 thru 5 on Sheet 1 thru 5. Run 6 will have Form 6 because you only had one mark on the sheet and it by default is assigned to the lowest number section (A6). Run 7 will have Form-8. Run 8 will have Form-10 (or 9...not sure exactly which it will have---the first section listed or the lowest number) and run 9 will have Form-11. If you change that mark from $Sig to $SigName I think the sheets for press Run 1 thru 9 will have Form 1 thru 9 on it.
Totally different from what I'm doing now.
We have a workaround for that. We take the imposition, open arrow click one of the pages and make it independent. We resize it and fix bleeds accordingly (as it chop cut) and it DOESN'T add a new section so $sig works for proper form numbering.
NOW I am working on a 48 page saddle stitch book, but my sheet is being cut down into 4 12-page sigs and I'm wondering, other than manually typing "Sig 2," etc. is there a way to create multiple sections on the same form, and have a string in a text mark that identifies the sections.
Nevermind $SigName. That gives you the actual signature name...just like it sounds it should. :rotf:
Quote from: DigiCorn on January 06, 2016, 09:31:14 PMQuote from: Joe on January 06, 2016, 09:22:49 PMI'm kind of confused now by that question. Lets go back to your earlier example...
In your earlier example you had A1 thru A5 in Press Run 1 through 5. Press run 6 had both A6 & A7, Press Run 7 had A8, Press Run 8 had A10 & A9, and Press Run 9 had A11 & A12. If you only put one text mark on the sheet using $Sig it will put, in your example Form-1 thru 5 on Sheet 1 thru 5. Run 6 will have Form 6 because you only had one mark on the sheet and it by default is assigned to the lowest number section (A6). Run 7 will have Form-8. Run 8 will have Form-10 (or 9...not sure exactly which it will have---the first section listed or the lowest number) and run 9 will have Form-11. If you change that mark from $Sig to $SigName I think the sheets for press Run 1 thru 9 will have Form 1 thru 9 on it.
Totally different from what I'm doing now.
We have a workaround for that. We take the imposition, open arrow click one of the pages and make it independent. We resize it and fix bleeds accordingly (as it chop cut) and it DOESN'T add a new section so $sig works for proper form numbering.
NOW I am working on a 48 page saddle stitch book, but my sheet is being cut down into 4 12-page sigs and I'm wondering, other than manually typing "Sig 2," etc. is there a way to create multiple sections on the same form, and have a string in a text mark that identifies the sections.
Yes. As I explained earlier you just add the text mark to the sheet as many times as sections that you have and assign each mark to a different section. See below.
I missed that last step. I'll check it out after lunch... right now I've got a new issue... I put creep on as usual and it went the opposite direction.
That is providing you have the template setup as 4 sections here:
Not sure on the creep. Haven't had any issue with it.
Time to go home here. Good luck. :hello:
I tried it and it works for a single form... but multiple forms as a saddle stitch and the numbers got all weird.
Can you send me the template so I can take a look at it?
Things move VERY fast around here... I'll see if I can go back and find it to send to you. Now we have a new issue; on the 110 web, we are running a sheet that's taller than it is wide, and Preps is rotating the marks, but not the work.
The current workaround solution is to take it away from Connect and Preps 7 and do it in Evo with Preps 5, that way we can manually rotate the pdf marks.
Are your templates made to sheet size or plate size?
Our web presses are made to plate size and almost all of ours are taller than they are wide because we run a double cutoff.
Not sure. We have layouts for our three types of presses: the M110 half web, the M130 full web and the XL105 Offset. Our templates are set up by plate, and then by sheet size, so I would say they are set up plate size.
So the marks are trying to extend off of the plate in Preps? That is the only time I've seen Preps try to auto rotate anything and I don't think I've even seen it try that since Preps 5.
Nope. It's all normal with plenty of room. It's 17.75" tall x 17.5" wide, but when "Save and return to prinergy," it rotates the marks in the VPS, but the imposed work is in the correct place.
OK I've never seen that happen in Prinergy. I don't even know how that is possible.
It was an issue in Evo here too, but for our system to work with ASIR bar codes, we have to make pdfs of the .ps for the marks before we can register, and then we can rotate the pdfs to fix. Because Connect and Preps 7 is all inclusive, we can't rotate the marks separately.
We haven't run into the rotated marks issue but are having another problem with crop marks.
For reasons out of our control for the time being we're forced to use Preps 5 after our Prinergy/Preps upgrade.
We've been create new Templates with Preps 7 and when needed move them back to 5 successfully with one exception.
Crop marks from 7 do not carry over when the templates are opened in 5. All other marks are fine, just the crops
drop out. What are we missing here?
bmudge
I believe the crop marks in Preps 5 were static marks and in 7 they are smartmarks so Preps 5 can't use them. Or something like that. I know there are smartmarks issues trying to use Preps 7 templates in Preps 5.
Now the big question.....why in the world would an upgrade force you to go back to Preps 5? :vomit:
Circumstances place us between a rock and hard headed ownership. Burning thru between 4 and 6,000 plates a week with
three full shifts of platemakers, one seat of training was purchased with our upgrade. Not a snowballs prayer in #@$%#@ the jump
from 5 to 7 could be made without a train wreck in press room production.
So we're holding on to preps 5 elements while the plate room gets a handle on 7.
Thanks much for the response makes perfect sense.
bmudge
Quote from: bmudge on January 08, 2016, 12:21:02 PMCircumstances place us between a rock and hard headed ownership. Burning thru between 4 and 6,000 plates a week with
three full shifts of platemakers, one seat of training was purchased with our upgrade. Not a snowballs prayer in #@$%#@ the jump
from 5 to 7 could be made without a train wreck in press room production.
So we're holding on to preps 5 elements while the plate room gets a handle on 7.
Thanks much for the response makes perfect sense.
bmudge
No other explanation needed. :rotf:
Quote from: Joe on January 08, 2016, 08:18:32 AMNow the big question.....why in the world would an upgrade force you to go back to Preps 5? :vomit:
Because Kodak said it was a known issue and didn't have a workaround for why our template is rotating the marks and leaving the work alone.
LOL...since you had that problem I've been trying to make it rotate the marks for me and I haven't been able to accomplish it. :rotf:
That's because you know what you're doing. We just got Connect right before I started here in December, and no one here knows a thing.
Can you send me that .job file real quick. It should be in the job folder under /System/ImpositionPlans/Preps or maybe just /System/ImpositionPlans? Does the marks show rotated in Preps or just in your VPS?
Quote from: Joe on January 08, 2016, 08:30:52 PMCan you send me that .job file real quick. It should be in the job folder under /System/ImpositionPlans/Preps or maybe just /System/ImpositionPlans? Does the marks show rotated in Preps or just in your VPS?
Just in the VPS.
[attachimg=1 align=left] Imported your .job file so of course I don't have some of your marks but that shouldn't matter since I do have the Preps standard marks. When I "Save and Return to Prinergy" from Preps I get this error. If you aren't seeing this error you probably have the Preps preference set to ignore this error. But you really should have a PDF of any marks that you use. So I continue with "Save and Return to Prinergy" and it processes and I make the VPS and this is what I get. The marks are not rotated.
Quote from: Joe on January 09, 2016, 08:08:35 AMIf you aren't seeing this error you probably have the Preps preference set to ignore this error.
If I am not seeing that error it's because the department lead and the Preps Nazi have set it that way. I am low man on the totem pole here in a department of 8 and I have no control over anything they have set up here.
Yay! I got a new problem now... when applying creep, it only moves the pages in one direction (sometimes). I haven't figured out why it works correctly sometimes, and why it doesn't sometimes. I assume if I rebuild the template from scratch, the problem will go away... but we're so busy here I don't have time to do that.
...and then, when you have a single sided cover on a saddle stitch book (or the cover is a spread and the rest are single pages), the creep goes backwards instead and you have to enter it as a negative number.
Fun times.
I think your copy of Preps needs an exorcism! :evil:
no shit, Sherlock(http://smileys.smilchat.net/smiley/famous/sherlockholmes.gif)
I've seen that creep weirdness in when using the Scale option on the creep. If you check the Scale box, then you have to make sure that your pages in Prinergy are set to "Honor Existing", not "Centered". By default, we have our pages always center, so when I scale creep a job I have to remember to change the setting.
We center the pages and use scale creep without any issues. Where are you centering your pages. In Preps or in Prinergy?
Prinergy.
In the Import Process Template as shown below? We've never noticed an issue using creep scale method with the centering set in the process template.
I was told today that posting anything here about any project or issue is a violation of my NDA and grounds for termination. I was also told not to try to help out with Prinergy issues because it's not my job to. We pay for support and it will be utilized. If I can't do my job properly because something doesn't work right, let them know. I suppose I can still post non-working related stuff tho. Posting from my phone on 4G so as not be tracked.
Well that sucks but it's not worth it to rock the boat.
Quote from: Joe on January 13, 2016, 02:28:06 PMIn the Import Process Template as shown below? We've never noticed an issue using creep scale method with the centering set in the process template.
Yes, that's the one. If I leave it centered, then when I do a VPS on a scale creep job I can tell that it's only creeping one side of a spread and you can tell by looking at the page box overlays that something looks amiss around the spine area. Change pages to Use Offsets and it all looks good.
Corn, f*** those people! I understand not posting specifics about a customer or the content of a job, but to not try to solve an issue on your own sounds like they just want drones working for them. Might be worth creating a new user, so even when you post from your phone or off hours they can't track it to you now that they know your handle!
I'll double check that tonight just to make sure ours is OK. We use it and haven't gotten any complaints. ;D We're on Preps 7.1.5 if that might make a difference.
Just a hunch, but I don't think the Preps version has anything to do with it. Saw the same behavior exhibited in Preps 5. I think it's a Prinergy thing.
Another interesting component to this - when making the VPS, I'll get the yellow exclamation mark telling me the page size doesn't match the impo when using scale creep w/centered, but when I change to Use Offsets it's green light all the way and no warning.
To illustrate the issue, I made a test job. Each page in the job has a keyline stroke along the trim to make it easy to see if it's right or wrong. I applied a heavy .25" scaled creep, also to make it easy to see.
The 2 screenshots show the results - only difference was one uses Centered, and one uses Offsets.
When I import Preps JDF Templates into XMF, there is a button that says "allow page adjustment". If this is unchecked, the pages will shift off center, like your example.
OR.... it is a bug with Preps Creep. I have mentioned this in a thread here, probably 5 years ago, but 4 out of 5 times I apply creep to a preps template, and export to JDF, it throws all pages off. Sometimes it does it, sometimes not, and I can't determine what makes it do this.
I'm not using JDF currently, but at my last job I used it and, being a book printer, I used creep almost every day and never once had it mess up (feeding the JDF to a Nexus workflow).
Well, JDF or not, I had Preps do that exact thing to me, when using creep. I would end up setting a template up, saving it, quitting Preps then opening the saved job and printing it, opening as few dialog boxes as I could get away with, prior to printing the template.
I use XMF impo now, so I haven't seen this problem in a while. I wonder if my Preps v6 is worth anything?
Damn you Curry! :whip:
Now we have a problem where I didn't know I had a problem. We've been lucky in that the customer hasn't noticed it I guess. :rotf:
Luckily for me my jobs never require creep but my co-workers have been screwing up all over the place! :rotf:
Hey Dan, if you have Prinergy to center the pages in the process template and the PDF actually has the correct trims, unusual but it does happen every now and then, does the scale creep still get screwed up?
Not sure I understand the question? My PDF always has the correct trims.
Scale Creep + Prinergy Centering Pages = Screwed Up every time.
Quote from: Joe on January 14, 2016, 02:03:07 PMNow we have a problem where I didn't know I had a problem.
Is it wrong that this pleases me? I do enjoy me some good schadenfreude!
Quote from: DCurry on January 14, 2016, 02:31:44 PMNot sure I understand the question? My PDF always has the correct trims.
Scale Creep + Prinergy Centering Pages = Screwed Up every time.
Well we only have it to set to center pages because we
never get pages with the proper trim. I wasn't aware you worked at Shangri La printing and your pages are always correct. :tongue:
Quote from: DCurry on January 14, 2016, 02:33:50 PMQuote from: Joe on January 14, 2016, 02:03:07 PMNow we have a problem where I didn't know I had a problem.
Is it wrong that this pleases me? I do enjoy me some good schadenfreude!
No. I often take joy from other peoples pain. I also did not win the lottery last night so enjoy!
Oh, I receive all sorts of crap, but I usually try to get it squared away before I feed it to Prinergy, especially if it is a book big enough to require creep.
I do work at a pretty good place, though. Lots of interesting projects and laid-back management.
We won $8 in the Powerball.
:laugh:
you have to split it up?
I don't think we won anything
:offtopic: :laugh:
Quote from: DCurry on January 14, 2016, 02:56:33 PMOh, I receive all sorts of crap, but I usually try to get it squared away before I feed it to Prinergy, especially if it is a book big enough to require creep.
I do work at a pretty good place, though. Lots of interesting projects and laid-back management.
Almost all of our jobs are uploaded by customers and auto refined before we even have a chance to look at them. Plus they won't pay to fix them properly so it goes the way they upload it.
Quote from: Tracy on January 14, 2016, 03:01:39 PM:laugh:
you have to split it up?
I don't think we won anything
:offtopic: :laugh:
At least someone in your state was one of the 3 winners.
Almost all of our jobs are uploaded by customers and auto refined before we even have a chance to look at them. Plus they won't pay to fix them properly so it goes the way they upload it. - Joe
This is the most beautiful thing I have read since starting in printing over 20 yrs ago. I am fine and very interested in fixing up the customers files, but not for free. I started when the transition from film stripping to computers was taking place. The owners back then spent a shit ton of money on computers, and then gave it all away because it was magical, no skill, was a savings to the customer. And here we are today...
Good to hear some companies are now either charging for prepress work, or printing your shit as is instead of giving my pay away. I can either fix your shit master Designer, or I can print what you gave me with automation. It is just the cost of the two paths they must choose. I have zero fucks to give which path is chosen.
Hey it seems there is sort of a fix from Kodak for this issue. I say sort of because it only works if the trims are set correctly to start with and you have to take the setting for centering pages to 'honor existing'. Which is useless for my situation. But here it is. Maybe it helps you.
Scaled creep is not correctly applied when Center Page is selected in the import process template
Product
Prinergy Connect 5.1 and later
Error
The trim defined for one or more pages on this surface is different from the trim specified in the imposition plan.
This issue is applicable to all import actions (i.e. imposition as well as job import).
Symptoms
Scaled creep is not correctly applied on output. On output, a message may appear.
Solution
Edit the Preps configuration file that you are using in the import process template. The profiles are located on the primary server at C:\Prinergy\CreoAraxi\AraxiPreps\Profiles.
Set Autocenter to Yes.
Set Center to No.
Set Scaledshingling to Yes. (SCALEDSHINGLING:YES)
Save the profile with a new name, then select the profile in the import process template.
In the import process template, set Center Pages in Imposition to Honor Existing.
Quote from: Mikie on January 14, 2016, 06:46:41 PMThis is the most beautiful thing I have read since starting in printing over 20 yrs ago. I am fine and very interested in fixing up the customers files, but not for free. I started when the transition from film stripping to computers was taking place. The owners back then spent a shit ton of money on computers, and then gave it all away because it was magical, no skill, was a savings to the customer. And here we are today...
Good to hear some companies are now either charging for prepress work, or printing your shit as is instead of giving my pay away. I can either fix your shit master Designer, or I can print what you gave me with automation. It is just the cost of the two paths they must choose. I have zero fucks to give which path is chosen.
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