Finally going to use pagination mode.
Got my layout all ready, but the add creep function has got me confused
I want to add creep to the face only and I want to add a negative number (paper mic size)
when I put a negative number in the "c" box it asks for more numbers
my best guess was "c" X was face only.
See Screen shot, too many boxes to choose from :laugh:
Hi Tracey,
You can adjust for "Face only" by selecting the page in the reading order. The go to "Job page properties" and select it there.
Just add Negative creep to "C" as you are doing.
Screen shot might help you below.
Thanks D!
that clears it up, 1 more question, color bars are greyed out for editing (moving)
does that mean I have to edit the template color bars, I thought I put the color bars
on in the layout.
I put a negative number in C - X value
and I get this message
Quote from: Tracy on September 15, 2016, 08:40:28 AMThanks D!
that clears it up, 1 more question, color bars are greyed out for editing (moving)
does that mean I have to edit the template color bars, I thought I put the color bars
on in the layout.
You have to do all your edits in the "Sheet" Section. Once you make it a "Sheet Group" you can't do edits. Or do them on your original template.
Quote from: Tracy on September 15, 2016, 09:23:05 AMI put a negative number in C - X value
and I get this message
Only select the Sheet that you want to creep. So in the image below, you can see that Creep is only applied to Section 2-4. You can tell what has creep applied by the Red icon in the B/S (Binding Style) column.
I always get a message that tells me there is no room for pages to creep when apply negative creep. I just ignore it, it still works.
Due to our fairly narrow tracks that we run on, have never investigated 'Pagination Mode'. Colour me clueless on that.
But Tracy, (and Diddler may concur), on any saddle stitches I've never found a reason not set 'Remove Creep' from first 2 pages and last 2 pages, then set 'Creep Face Only' for the rest. It's seamless.
I'm having issues with the creep and my system. I keep hitting remove creep but the salesman still doesn't leave my office.
Thanks for the info on the color bar
So am I right in inputting the paper mic size for the creep in "C" X value and 0 for the "C" Y value?
I can't tell if it's right but it seems right.
@Frailer, I have a job that could only be done with pagination mode
unless I make separate jobs, I really like how it does different sheet sizes
So I'm taken out of my comfort zone, (which I hate) :laugh:
Tracey, You could use more than one "Workflow" in a job. This allows you to have different sheet sizes. You just need to turn you pages on or off to suit that section.
Quote from: Tracy on September 16, 2016, 08:26:20 AMThanks for the info on the color bar
So am I right in inputting the paper mic size for the creep in "C" X value and 0 for the "C" Y value?
I can't tell if it's right but it seems right.
@Frailer, I have a job that could only be done with pagination mode
unless I make separate jobs, I really like how it does different sheet sizes
So I'm taken out of my comfort zone, (which I hate) :laugh:
Tracy, careful, methinks, with that 'paper mic value' vis-a-vis the 'XMF Creep Value'.
The latter is calculated by :
-number of pages, including cover
-Then minus 4, (factors cover out of the picture) then divide by 4, (actual number of 4pp sheets in the job).
-Then divide the paper mic value by the result of the earlier calculation.
So, a 36pp would be 36-4=32
32÷4=8
If paper mic was 0.33 mm, then 0.33÷8 = 0.4 = XMF Creep Value.
Sound messy, but it's not really.
Advantage is that if you were to add extra pages; (number of 4pp sheets), that Creep Value would still apply. No recalculations to be done. XMF will just 'squish' the extra increments in as the page count increases.
It's a 'co-efficient', essentially, and is a reflection of the paper thickness only...not the number of pages.
Sorry Tracy... just realised that there's about 6 months' worth of 'mansplainin' going on there. :tapedshut:
I usually put the paper mic size when I do the creep with the regular layout.
Not sure if the "C" Value in pagination mode is asking for the paper mic size. I think it is tho.
There seems to be an option for total creep, which I don't like to use.
Hey! let me know if you come down San Diego way!! It's a 3 hour drive from LA
I have a creep related question. I see people talking about only creeping part of the book. Maybe preps 5 doesn't have as robust creep options (think scaling if about it). I've always just done the math and depending on how I feel that day I either divide by 2 or 4 (4 makes sense but I was taught 2) and entered it as inner creep and it's worked. I did try and use the DCS method of splitting the inner and outer (suck inner pages in, push outer pages out) and it didn't work so well. Since our shitty bindery screwed it up I'm not truly sure where the fault lies but I'm still going with what has been working.
Why are you only creeping a portion? Is that how XMF works?
Frailer does it that way, I creep the whole book, I don't see a shift in the beginning pages over here.
But there could be a difference since he uses millimeters :laugh: I keed
Don't do any really big SS either
I do the negative number toward the spine thingy!! :laugh:
Creep in general doesn't move the first and last sheet. Only everything in between. At least in Preps that is what it does.
Quote from: Tracy on September 19, 2016, 10:24:57 AMI usually put the paper mic size when I do the creep with the regular layout.
Not sure if the "C" Value in pagination mode is asking for the paper mic size. I think it is tho.
There seems to be an option for total creep, which I don't like to use.
Hey! let me know if you come down San Diego way!! It's a 3 hour drive from LA
Shall do. Wife & daughter are organising stuff once we're there. They're good at that stuff... me not so. :laugh:
Quote from: Farabomb on September 19, 2016, 10:57:53 AMI have a creep related question. I see people talking about only creeping part of the book. Maybe preps 5 doesn't have as robust creep options (think scaling if about it). I've always just done the math and depending on how I feel that day I either divide by 2 or 4 (4 makes sense but I was taught 2) and entered it as inner creep and it's worked. I did try and use the DCS method of splitting the inner and outer (suck inner pages in, push outer pages out) and it didn't work so well. Since our shitty bindery screwed it up I'm not truly sure where the fault lies but I'm still going with what has been working.
Why are you only creeping a portion? Is that how XMF works?
Modus operandi of XMF on that is to 'unCreep' the 4 cover pages, generally. I'm following the bouncing ball. :D
That does make sense; makes it easier for the bindery monkeys. I don't know about XMF but preps moves crop marks and without fail every time I creep something bindery freaks out and makes a big deal out of nothing. Remember, these are the same guys that don't know the difference between a work and turn and a work and tumble. To them a sheetwise is when all the sheet is used.
Quote from: Farabomb on September 21, 2016, 06:40:36 AMThat does make sense; makes it easier for the bindery monkeys. I don't know about XMF but preps moves crop marks and without fail every time I creep something bindery freaks out and makes a big deal out of nothing. Remember, these are the same guys that don't know the difference between a work and turn and a work and tumble. To them a sheetwise is when all the sheet is used.
You can change the Preps config file so the marks don't move.
Yeah I had to make a big note for the bindery when the marks were moving
when I used Preps 4.
Joe has a way of changing that tho!!
Bindery will come in and complain not matter what so it's fine when it's a easily solved problem. What I don't understand is his utter lack of retention of anything. He keeps calling my dog a she, for 3 years now, forgets people's names that have worked here for years and totally screws up the name of longtime customers.
I assumed there would be something in the config file that changes that. You can change a TON of things in the config and at one time I cared enough to do that. Now, I'd have no idea where to start.
-SHINGLECROPMARKS:YES
or
-SHINGLECROPMARKS:NO
I'd have to go find the path to the config file. I'm leaving in 30 minutes to go play with cars so it's real low on the list of things to do.
Not sure why a press person would need to be concerned whether crop marks moved with creep compensation or didn't. Sure, ours are aware of when we're running Comp. (not that often), but theyr registering to our laced crosshair rego marks, anyway.
Bindery Man loves it when the crop marks move in with the page 'shrinkage'. If your values are right, the face crops will align, and they'll chop off that way too. :shrug:
I think it's when your not folding before cutting is the problem.
If it's folding before cutting no problemo!
putting those center marks on helps!
XMF has a setting to not let the marks move.
nevermind just testing
:smiley: I think if I had to use another impo product now I'd not be happy. It's unlikely I'll have to... :old: ... :rotf:
Quote from: pspdfppdfxhd on September 22, 2016, 05:58:52 PMnevermind just testing
To see if they'll still let you in the door? I had to do that recently.
Everyone sorted with their creeps?
We work in nothing but pagintation mode, and apply creep on a daily basis :banana:
Diddler helped me out with the Pagination Mode, I did a job with it.
I really need to use it more tho!
Tracy, Pagination mode speeds up your workflow dramatically with bookwork.
It seems quicker, I will try a layout without different sheet sizes
and I might catch on better, Hey what an idea!!!
Thanks!
Be careful with multiple sheet sizes, do NOT put different sheet sizes in the same sheet group - it will result in them being on the same sheet size.
Paul
Quote from: nordeuk@hotmail.com on January 19, 2017, 04:48:13 AMBe careful with multiple sheet sizes, do NOT put different sheet sizes in the same sheet group - it will result in them being on the same sheet size.
Paul
Not entirely true Paul, you can add other plate icons to your workflow and assign different sheets sizes to different plates. But you are correct in what you say if you use only 1 plate icon in the workflow.
Quote from: Tracy on January 18, 2017, 12:03:31 PMDiddler helped me out with the Pagination Mode, I did a job with it.
I really need to use it more tho!
Consider yourself Diddled. ;D
:laugh: Hi Ear! (freakshow)
'ello poppet
I get Pagination Mode! :banana:
Diddler taught me how to use it and I have been brave enough to use it lately.
I get it now!!!
Quote from: Tracy on February 01, 2017, 10:29:01 AMI get Pagination Mode! :banana:
Diddler taught me how to use it and I have been brave enough to use it lately.
I get it now!!!
Well done Tracy. Keen to learn about "Sets" next.
:laugh: Oh Boy!
Quote from: Diddler on January 19, 2017, 07:10:58 PMQuote from: nordeuk@hotmail.com on January 19, 2017, 04:48:13 AMBe careful with multiple sheet sizes, do NOT put different sheet sizes in the same sheet group - it will result in them being on the same sheet size.
Paul
Not entirely true Paul, you can add other plate icons to your workflow and assign different sheets sizes to different plates. But you are correct in what you say if you use only 1 plate icon in the workflow.
Ah yes... i forgot that one!.... we like to use multiple tabs and label them according - example 'Cover - SRA1' and 'Text - 630x880'..... we find it useful for other operators taking over jobs from various shifts
Quote from: Diddler on February 01, 2017, 04:09:32 PMQuote from: Tracy on February 01, 2017, 10:29:01 AMI get Pagination Mode! :banana:
Diddler taught me how to use it and I have been brave enough to use it lately.
I get it now!!!
Well done Tracy. Keen to learn about "Sets" next.
Sets are good, though when we upgraded to newer XMF, new server, new iMacs running Clients, whenever we used Workflow Sets, the plates would get fed straight to the 'setter to image. :o Haven't really properly re-tested it yet.
Quote from: frailer on September 12, 2017, 07:42:59 PMQuote from: Diddler on February 01, 2017, 04:09:32 PMQuote from: Tracy on February 01, 2017, 10:29:01 AMI get Pagination Mode! :banana:
Diddler taught me how to use it and I have been brave enough to use it lately.
I get it now!!!
Well done Tracy. Keen to learn about "Sets" next.
Sets are good, though when we upgraded to newer XMF, new server, new iMacs running Clients, whenever we used Workflow Sets, the plates would get fed straight to the 'setter to image. :o Haven't really properly re-tested it yet.
We have been having the same issue with plates 'releasing themselves' - it coincided with a factory move and new plate platesetter. It happens to a lot of our jobs that are retrieved fro archive! Guessing it must be a bug, we can't see any difference in the settings that are causing it.
There's a button somewhere that you can check which is written like [Hold before output]. When you restore an archive file, before releasing the workflow items for re-processing, make sure that this check box is checked.
Quote from: Lyzan on September 18, 2017, 06:09:43 AMThere's a button somewhere that you can check which is written like [Hold before output]. When you restore an archive file, before releasing the workflow items for re-processing, make sure that this check box is checked.
'Hold before output' found under the device settings. Yes, this is checked. We even replaced the entire tab on retrieved jobs and they still randomly autoplate.
Quote from: nordeuk@hotmail.com on September 25, 2017, 05:46:44 AMQuote from: Lyzan on September 18, 2017, 06:09:43 AMThere's a button somewhere that you can check which is written like [Hold before output]. When you restore an archive file, before releasing the workflow items for re-processing, make sure that this check box is checked.
'Hold before output' found under the device settings. Yes, this is checked. We even replaced the entire tab on retrieved jobs and they still randomly autoplate.
Try looking in Page Prep Preferences and see if Auto Flow and Auto Complete jobs is on?
Yeah...good tips.
I got stung yesterday by a bad combo of Creep Adjustment, along with a front cover needing to be changed from W&T to Sheet (roller marks on press). It should have ONLY asked me to re-render the first section, but it signalled a re-render of the lot, Shoulda smelled a rat there and then, but nup... It changed the creep adjustment cos I'd not checked "Use Default Creep' on the newly jigged cover section. We were only part way through plating the text...oh, and a plate fail/replate required in the middle of it.
Was like unravelling a cryptic puzzle.
I *think* it'll bind OK, (made a full mock up from printed sheets), but wont be happy until it's bound and nobody walks in with *that* look on their face. :undecided:
I think you should be fine if it was the cover.
I've seen XMF re render sheets you wouldn't think it would.
Quote from: frailer on September 27, 2017, 06:14:37 PMYeah...good tips.
I got stung yesterday by a bad combo of Creep Adjustment, along with a front cover needing to be changed from W&T to Sheet (roller marks on press). It should have ONLY asked me to re-render the first section, but it signalled a re-render of the lot, Shoulda smelled a rat there and then, but nup... It changed the creep adjustment cos I'd not checked "Use Default Creep' on the newly jigged cover section. We were only part way through plating the text...oh, and a plate fail/replate required in the middle of it.
Was like unravelling a cryptic puzzle.
I *think* it'll bind OK, (made a full mock up from printed sheets), but wont be happy until it's bound and nobody walks in with *that* look on their face. :undecided:
XMF did not prompt you of choices which signatures you want to re-render? A job completed and then edited will make XMF ask you which signature you want to re-render.
Quote from: Diddler on September 26, 2017, 08:47:43 PMQuote from: nordeuk@hotmail.com on September 25, 2017, 05:46:44 AMQuote from: Lyzan on September 18, 2017, 06:09:43 AMThere's a button somewhere that you can check which is written like [Hold before output]. When you restore an archive file, before releasing the workflow items for re-processing, make sure that this check box is checked.
'Hold before output' found under the device settings. Yes, this is checked. We even replaced the entire tab on retrieved jobs and they still randomly autoplate.
Try looking in Page Prep Preferences and see if Auto Flow and Auto Complete jobs is on?
You are not outputting via TIFF Export? I am not sure about this but I think XMF archiver remembers the last settings and actions done with the job. I can only suggest a workaround, Put your platesetter offline when restoring from XMF archive. Also how did you setup your platesetter? Did you install the platesetter with separate workstations using XMF slave installation? Also, I will assume that the archive jobs did not include the render files which by the way is the right strategy. And I think, Fujifilm has a very good support. You can raise this issue to them.
//Lyzan
Okay here is a better solution when restoring archive jobs.
Abort plates in your queue manager after restoring a job. Do not release it, abort it instead.
Also try to un-check [Job resources] in your archiver settings. Then test the archiver. Archive a job and restore it. Then check the effects in our restored job.
//Lyzan