Mixed ink swatch with two Pantones

[DigiCorn]

That explains the mask I removed before I sent it to you, that "magically," reappeared when you sent it back. I removed it again, saved as an .eps and saved it in my image archives. Then I resaved as a .pdf and plopped it in to the letterhead .pdf file he sent me to work the job.

[t-pat]

I assumed the OP meant "In Illustrator" - so you got us on a technicality. In Indy, it's trivial to do.

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

That's where it originated. Logic dictates if InDesign can handle vector, and can utilize spot mixes, why NOT do it in there? Putting it back in AI, was more of DCS playing games with you guys to see who would catch it.

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

It's really no different than opening up FH files in AI.

[t-pat]

You can do this in illy with the attributes panel. I just did one with 3 spot fills and a gradient Fill. It's simple and all organized in the appearance pane. Try it out.

I appreciate a good hack but would rather not if i can do it in a way that allows me control and repeatability. Net is down at work, I'll post an example soon.

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

You can do it with control and reliability. I would be uncomfortable doing it with a more complex piece of art, furthermore, it's not like we get asked to fix customer's color logos for repeat usability. It was a task that he, (Corn) probably didn't get paid a dime for and to me, if it works, why put a shitload of time into it? The file seps correctly, displays correctly and will absolutely print correctly and is still in vector. 5 minutes it took me.

Corn, if you want the InDesign file I created this from, I can provide that to you as well. The customer might prefer it that way.

[DigiCorn]

In all honesty, I think this customer works in Pagemaker. I only ever see pdfs and NEVER get native files.

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

Wow! Then give him an EPS of it.

That Magenta/Black way he built the logo used to be a Printers Trick. If we had a file that came in with multiple colors, converting everything over to process and remapping all the spots to Magenta or Black would work as a quick fix. The film would then be labeled with the appropriate PMS color an whammo! Done. Anything spot that needed a proof from film was usually a color-key or a blueline, which was easy enough to swap colors.

Since CTP, no more film and proofs more times than not have to be color accurate for the customers, even when they build it in the above fashion. I've got TONS of workarounds, but this one was a new one to me.

[t-pat]

 
So your argument is that it took 5 min ?

OK, but at least look at the appearance method.

It also takes 5 minutes,  so what's your argument? 

I know what you did and how you did it, why not look at doing it another way?


Net still down at work.

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

I'm not opposed to doing it another way and there is no argument. I explained how I did it, nothing more.

there is no mixed ink swatch in Illy - fucking STILL.

The elegant way of doing it is to make 2 fills, with one set to overprint (in appearance - 2 fills) - then make a graphic style of it so you can apply it like a swatch.

So like this:

1. Make 2 spot swatches, one "PANTONE XXX" & "2ND HIT OF XXX"
2. Make a box somewhere on the pasteboard
3. apply the fill of the original color
4. in appearance, add a fill, set it to the 2nd hit color
5. in attributes, with the original fill selected in appearance, set overprint
6. apply this to your box you made
7 open graphic styles and drag that box onto the graphic styles window - now you've got a "swatch" which you can apply to stuff - select same fill, apply.

or the down and dirty but very hazardous - just duplicate everything in that color, put it under the original, make it the 2nd hit and overprint the original color.

Prinergy requires some monkeyshines for it to come out. You must a) allow overprints, and b) make a color swatch of the primary in your color libraries, and set it to opaque. YMMV.

EDIT: not sure how this will work on your gradients, but I'm sure I have done it.

This would have taken some time to do, not to mention ripping the logo apart. I did it in 5 minutes and it was done. BECAUSE of that you were able to find another way. So, in essence we all learned something and Corn got his file. Why would you think I have a problem with that?

[Tracy]

shoo wee, learned lots today! :smiley:

[t-pat]

assuming you had an eps or illy file to begin with, or some sort of vectors ---

a) - no you would not have to "rip the log apart" - make graphic style per instrux, select same fill, apply, profit. This is the main (and possibly only in this case) advantage of doing this in illy.
 
b) " BECAUSE of that you were able to find another way." - what? I didn't find another way because of what you did. I already knew how to do it. I wrote the instructions from memory before even looking at your "Illustrator" file, which on it's own is not editable in any meaningful fashion, where you could actually change the colors or properties on the objects.

 I've done it both ways, many times. Trust me on this. We have an 8 color press, and use all of them sometimes. Packaging work is pretty steady and almost always has double hits or multi-inks. I really do prefer to do it in Indy - if it is a couple simple shapes or a background flood coat. If it's complex art and many objects that need to have multi-inks applied, I may do it in Illustrator mainly because "select same".

c) It takes no more time to do it, if you do it per my instructions. (undoubtedly it would take longer the first time you ever did it). Indy requires you to have or make 2 swatches, and make the mixed ink swatch from those. That takes as much time (or possibly more) as clicking "duplicate swatch" in Appearance and cliding "overprint" Again, I PREFER to do it in Indy, as it does not require me to rip it with overprint on.

d) You posted an Illy file. It "worked" but was not fully editable, had weird masks on it, and was generally mystery meat. If you were trying to help maybe you'd have posted your real work and/or instructions but you were being tricky with the paste from the ether method. You didn't trick me obviously. Don't get me wrong, I'll do that as a last resort but god help the next operator that picks it up, if that needs to happen. Posting the indy work would have been far more instructive. Also as simple as the art was, hell, you could have duped a couple of those squares and overprinted them old school, without doing anything very fancy with multi-inks or appearance.

e) I think you are still not understanding the functions of the appearance panel with regards to how this works. If you'd look at it, you'd see that you can do a bazillion more things in there than you can in Indy. You can apply multiple fills, with gradients, effects, opacity masks, and much more to one single object, and "stack" these fills to achieve the desired look. Remember, this is on ONE object, it does not require the old method of duplicating the object and applying different fills to a new object and overprinting one object on another. It allows you to "select same" and apply globally. Indy does not.

Check it out, this would have been a very easy introduction into using appearance.


I just feel like you're being dismissive and haven't even looked at the method I posted, or the screen shots of my appearance panel. It wasn't a race either.

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

Damn Patterson, you are getting all butt-hurt over nothing, man...seriously. :laugh:

I'm not discounting your method, nor am I in a race. I put the file back in Illustrator, for one to see if it would retain the mixed-inks I set up in InDesign. And two, because the logo originated there. To be honest, I have the AI file AND the InDesign file and both saved out as a PDF work fine. The InDesign file actually IS completely editable and I also offered that up to Corn. It's up to him what he wants to do.

I've read every one of your posts and understand exactly what you're saying, I'm not trying to be dismissive at all. I also have an 8-color, I do packaging daily and if I said something to warrant all of this, okay. I'm also not implying my way was better by any means. It's a hack. There are always 16 ways to skin a cat, and you will find, I don't do shit the same way everyone else does. Doesn't mean I don't or can't achieve the same results.

I had a theory about InDesign, and that was really my foremost thought. "I wonder if AI will retain the mixed inks?" You actually gave me the idea. It did work, people learned a work around and there you have it. There's not really anything else to it.

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

Here's the InDesign file if anyone wants to see what Patterson and I are talking about.

https://www.b4print.com/MGalleryItem.php?id=799

[DigiCorn]

Back in the old days, I did this with Corel Draw files.