Make Compound Path problem

[determined]

Why do they have to be a compound path?

The problem is that there is 2 varnishes as I understand it. The spot red is a glossy varnish that covers everything but the photos and the spot yellow is the matt varnish that covers the photos. He made boxes that covered the photos and colored as spot yellow and set to overprint. Then he made a box to cover the whole page for the glossy varnish and set it to overprint and then made white boxes (over the photos that gets the matt varnish) where he wanted the glossy varnish knocked out. The problem though is when the white box knocks out the spot red it also knocks out the spot yellow and the images below it. By making a compound path by selecting the spot red and the white box it punches a whole though the spot red while allowing the spot yellow to show though which is overprinting the photos. This way he ends up with a composite PDF, 4 color plus the two spots, and he can turn off the spots to see the 4 color process below and when he is ready to output the spot yellow and red output exactly as they need to be.

With the varnishes set up this way (compound path), can they be trapped? I almost always end up creating my varnishes (that need to trap) as layers over the process in Indd but have to export them as
two separate (process & varnish) files in order to trap. Could just be the way my rip works, though (and I have never used the compound path method)

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

Are you not setting densities for the varnishes on the RIP? That may be the reason they are not trapping.

[DigiCorn]

Why do they have to be a compound path?

The problem is that there is 2 varnishes as I understand it. The spot red is a glossy varnish that covers everything but the photos and the spot yellow is the matt varnish that covers the photos. He made boxes that covered the photos and colored as spot yellow and set to overprint. Then he made a box to cover the whole page for the glossy varnish and set it to overprint and then made white boxes (over the photos that gets the matt varnish) where he wanted the glossy varnish knocked out. The problem though is when the white box knocks out the spot red it also knocks out the spot yellow and the images below it. By making a compound path by selecting the spot red and the white box it punches a whole though the spot red while allowing the spot yellow to show though which is overprinting the photos. This way he ends up with a composite PDF, 4 color plus the two spots, and he can turn off the spots to see the 4 color process below and when he is ready to output the spot yellow and red output exactly as they need to be.

With the varnishes set up this way (compound path), can they be trapped? I almost always end up creating my varnishes (that need to trap) as layers over the process in Indd but have to export them as
two separate (process & varnish) files in order to trap. Could just be the way my rip works, though (and I have never used the compound path method)

Came in late on this, but I have run in to the compound path problem when working with layers; your items all need to be on the same layer before attempting to make the compound path. I have also run into the overprint problem as well. Sometimes it's easier to create the varnish in Rampage... sometimes you have to make the compound path to get Rampage to get it to trap properly.

In ID what I have done is create a varnish layer, and then draw a box over the page and assign a fill of a varnish color. I then dupe the images to knock out of the varnish and paste in place on the varnish layer. Then I remove the fill or image of the knockout items and use Pathfinder-->Subtract to create the compound path... if the items knocked out need a different varnish (say a gloss vs. a dull) I will re-pate in place the boxes (and redelete their content) and then assign the fill color to the new varnish. Then I set them all to overprint and when they go through Rampage, I select the varnish option for trapping and they will overprint and trap to each other.

[determined]

Why do they have to be a compound path?

The problem is that there is 2 varnishes as I understand it. The spot red is a glossy varnish that covers everything but the photos and the spot yellow is the matt varnish that covers the photos. He made boxes that covered the photos and colored as spot yellow and set to overprint. Then he made a box to cover the whole page for the glossy varnish and set it to overprint and then made white boxes (over the photos that gets the matt varnish) where he wanted the glossy varnish knocked out. The problem though is when the white box knocks out the spot red it also knocks out the spot yellow and the images below it. By making a compound path by selecting the spot red and the white box it punches a whole though the spot red while allowing the spot yellow to show though which is overprinting the photos. This way he ends up with a composite PDF, 4 color plus the two spots, and he can turn off the spots to see the 4 color process below and when he is ready to output the spot yellow and red output exactly as they need to be.

With the varnishes set up this way (compound path), can they be trapped? I almost always end up creating my varnishes (that need to trap) as layers over the process in Indd but have to export them as
two separate (process & varnish) files in order to trap. Could just be the way my rip works, though (and I have never used the compound path method)

Came in late on this, but I have run in to the compound path problem when working with layers; your items all need to be on the same layer before attempting to make the compound path. I have also run into the overprint problem as well. Sometimes it's easier to create the varnish in Rampage... sometimes you have to make the compound path to get Rampage to get it to trap properly.

In ID what I have done is create a varnish layer, and then draw a box over the page and assign a fill of a varnish color. I then dupe the images to knock out of the varnish and paste in place on the varnish layer. Then I remove the fill or image of the knockout items and use Pathfinder-->Subtract to create the compound path... if the items knocked out need a different varnish (say a gloss vs. a dull) I will re-pate in place the boxes (and redelete their content) and then assign the fill color to the new varnish. Then I set them all to overprint and when they go through Rampage, I select the varnish option for trapping and they will overprint and trap to each other.

OK, the difference being, I never used the compound path method (I just duped the images on top of the varnish layer and filled them accordingly)....which is also why I've had to rip them separately (you can't tell the one varnish that isn't knocked out to overprint)....

Learn something new everyday (can I go home now?)

Thanks  :cool:

[DigiCorn]

Learn something new everyday (can I go home now?)

You can go when the bell dismisses you.

[Joe]

Why do they have to be a compound path?

The problem is that there is 2 varnishes as I understand it. The spot red is a glossy varnish that covers everything but the photos and the spot yellow is the matt varnish that covers the photos. He made boxes that covered the photos and colored as spot yellow and set to overprint. Then he made a box to cover the whole page for the glossy varnish and set it to overprint and then made white boxes (over the photos that gets the matt varnish) where he wanted the glossy varnish knocked out. The problem though is when the white box knocks out the spot red it also knocks out the spot yellow and the images below it. By making a compound path by selecting the spot red and the white box it punches a whole though the spot red while allowing the spot yellow to show though which is overprinting the photos. This way he ends up with a composite PDF, 4 color plus the two spots, and he can turn off the spots to see the 4 color process below and when he is ready to output the spot yellow and red output exactly as they need to be.

With the varnishes set up this way (compound path), can they be trapped? I almost always end up creating my varnishes (that need to trap) as layers over the process in Indd but have to export them as
two separate (process & varnish) files in order to trap. Could just be the way my rip works, though (and I have never used the compound path method)

I think it should. It does in Prinergy anyway.

[Joe]

Or the Captain could have selected the 3 boxes for gloss put them on top of the overall dull, and went to /Object/Pathfinder/Subtract.

I find the easiest thing to do, is set the PSDs up with a varnish, then put them on top the dull in the InDesign file. Too many times, I get custom paths on images that require varnish and it's a pain to line them up.

Depends on the file and how much work I think I can avoid by working smarter. :tongue:

Yeah, there is always more than one way to skin a cat. I don't do a lot of varnishes since most of my stuff is ran on the web. This was the first thing I tried that worked.

[Joe]

Why do they have to be a compound path?

The problem is that there is 2 varnishes as I understand it. The spot red is a glossy varnish that covers everything but the photos and the spot yellow is the matt varnish that covers the photos. He made boxes that covered the photos and colored as spot yellow and set to overprint. Then he made a box to cover the whole page for the glossy varnish and set it to overprint and then made white boxes (over the photos that gets the matt varnish) where he wanted the glossy varnish knocked out. The problem though is when the white box knocks out the spot red it also knocks out the spot yellow and the images below it. By making a compound path by selecting the spot red and the white box it punches a whole though the spot red while allowing the spot yellow to show though which is overprinting the photos. This way he ends up with a composite PDF, 4 color plus the two spots, and he can turn off the spots to see the 4 color process below and when he is ready to output the spot yellow and red output exactly as they need to be.

Well thank you Mr. Information Booth!

Just kidding. I learned something new. I will read your paragraph again once I'm fully awake.

Well you asked. :tongue:

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

You're correct. I can think of 4 different ways right off the top of my head. It's usually per job and what the press requirements are.

For example, if I set up a job for spot varnish, I have a lot more leeway than if I were to set up a job for spot UV. Spot varnishes require a plate, spot UV requires a blanket. If the job calls for a varnish, I set the transparent raster files up as a fifth in PS. That way I know for a fact they will line up. Any boxed images in InDesign, I duplicate the box, paste it on top the image, cut the image and make the box whatever varnish color it is and set it to overprint. If 2 or more overlap, you have to punch one from the other and overprint. Since they are vector they will trap. AI files, I duplicate the art, assign it the same color varnish and set that to overprint. ALWAYS check the separation preview to double-check.

If the job requires spot UV, everything has to be vector. This can be quite the pain in the ass. I usually have to export paths from PS into AI, and pull some serious tricks out of my ass. Always a challenge though. I enjoy these kind of jobs... the ones that challenge me.

[Joe]

I do miss the jobs that challenge me and make me think. Anymore it's just open PDF, Pitstop, close, repeat...for 10 hours a day.

[DigiCorn]

I do miss the jobs that challenge me and make me think. Anymore it's just open PDF, Pitstop, close, repeat...for 10 hours a day.

I have to agree with this. I have several well trained clients now who do what I ask and it's drop and go. I like the challenge of figuring out something complex. Besides, without the morons, what would we have to complain about? Most of us sit all day, indoors, with very little heavy lifting or exersion. And while we are all underpaid based on our knowledge, we're not flipping burgers or kissing ass to make $$$.

[gnubler]

we're not kissing ass to make $$$.

Most of us aren't, anyway...

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

I do miss the jobs that challenge me and make me think. Anymore it's just open PDF, Pitstop, close, repeat...for 10 hours a day.

I still get them occasionally. Maybe a few times a month. It's usually the packaging/box jobs that are the biggest challenge. The artwork is often times very half-ass, go figure, and it can't be. Everything has to be perfect. One little hiccup and it gets yanked off press. Because of this, making varnishes on regular Prepress jobs becomes almost too easy. Everyone that thinks they know Prepress needs to work packaging... that shit will DESTROY the weak and make Gods of the willing. Excellent experience, I highly recommend it.

Warning, it is not for beginner. You have to have a working understanding of how spots, dies, UPC codes, varnishes, foils, spot whites and imposition interact with the press. You also need to be EXTREMELY anal. Most everything is based on numerical values in regards to position and color. Like I said... the file has to be PRISTINE!

[David]

Warning, it is not for beginner. You have to have a working understanding of how spots, dies, UPC codes, varnishes, foils, spot whites and imposition interact with the press. You also need to be EXTREMELY anal. Most everything is based on numerical values in regards to position and color. Like I said... the file has to be PRISTINE!

do you work in my building?

we do all of that and more.

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

Warning, it is not for beginner. You have to have a working understanding of how spots, dies, UPC codes, varnishes, foils, spot whites and imposition interact with the press. You also need to be EXTREMELY anal. Most everything is based on numerical values in regards to position and color. Like I said... the file has to be PRISTINE!

do you work in my building?

we do all of that and more.

We do too, not quite as many services post press as you offer. I know you understand what I'm saying... there are a few. :wink: