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Offline tuff_gong

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Xitron speed thest
« on: June 25, 2015, 03:24:44 PM »
Looking for a huge favor. We're considering a Xitron Sierra RIP to replace our older Nexus 9.5. We are starting to print a lot of large sports posters, full coverage, lots of type, transparency, you name it. They tie up the nexus way long. (Running on Win Server 2003, 4 gigs ram, so not too powerful). Would any Sierra user consider running a sample file on their rip to see how long it would take? Usual Golden Rocket Pony prize is involved.
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Offline Farabomb

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Re: Xitron speed thest
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2015, 03:33:59 PM »
Ear? think you're the only one on Serria, though I believe XMF is basically the same just Fuji branded.
Speed doesn't kill, rapidly becoming stationary is the problem

I'd rather have stories told than be telling stories of what I could have done.

Quote from: Ear date=1459965256 link=msg=278846
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It's more like grip, grip, grip, noise, then spin and 2 feet in and feel shame.
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Offline andyfest

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Re: Xitron speed thest
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2015, 03:48:29 PM »
Quote from: tuff_gong link=msg=269967 date=1435260284

Looking for a huge favor. We're considering a Xitron Sierra RIP to replace our older Nexus 9.5. We are starting to print a lot of large sports posters, full coverage, lots of type, transparency, you name it. They tie up the nexus way long. (Running on Win Server 2003, 4 gigs ram, so not too powerful). Would any Sierra user consider running a sample file on their rip to see how long it would take? Usual Golden Rocket Pony prize is involved.
Any chance of the free Nexus 10.1.3 upgrade or have you thrown out the service contract? Also, v9 & v10 can be run on a Mac-based server, which you could beef up and configure pretty cheaply. Once we switched the speeds increased drastically. Nexus 10.1.3 is very solid. However, if you can't get in for free the alternative for a workflow switch is probably the best idea.
Fairly recent Adobe Creative Cloud, Versa RIPs, Flexi Cut RIP, couple of Roland wide format printers, Seal 60+ laminator + another old laminator that I hate, vinyl cutter and knives....lots of knives

Offline tuff_gong

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Re: Xitron speed thest
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2015, 03:50:05 PM »
No service contract. Nexus is pretty expensive and we'd pay for a lot of capability that we just don't need.
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Offline Ear

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Re: Xitron speed thest
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2015, 05:17:47 PM »
I sent you a PM with my particulars, Tuffy. I'd be happy to preform a speed test for you.
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Offline Ear

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Re: Xitron speed thest
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2015, 12:37:40 PM »
Okay, I downloaded and ripped your sample file.

At first, it was failing to render. It gave me an APPE error: Invalid trapping.

I ran an EnFocus preflight on it and discovered that it was saved as PDF version 1.4, but was created in InDesign 5.5. This is not good. There is no reason to make press quality art backwards compatible. I re-fried the PDF up to version 1.7 (Acro 8/9), which supports all of the new mask and trans features that this poster is using. It then ripped in less than 2 minutes.
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Offline mattbeals

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Re: Xitron speed thest
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2015, 03:39:15 PM »
Quote from: Ear link=msg=270017 date=1435595860

Okay, I downloaded and ripped your sample file.

At first, it was failing to render. It gave me an APPE error: Invalid trapping.

I ran an EnFocus preflight on it and discovered that it was saved as PDF version 1.4, but was created in InDesign 5.5. This is not good. There is no reason to make press quality art backwards compatible. I re-fried the PDF up to version 1.7 (Acro 8/9), which supports all of the new mask and trans features that this poster is using. It then ripped in less than 2 minutes.


If you refried it by "refrying" then you went from pdf to ps and back to pdf. That stripped all the transparency and other features out of the pdf. Pdf 1.4 is perfectly valid, no reason to do anything to it.

Tuff, resave it as "high quality print" or pdf/x-4 and tray again.
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Offline Ear

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Re: Xitron speed thest
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2015, 03:46:25 PM »
You are correct, it was more likely that I flattened the transparency but I do get more trouble out of PDF v1.4 than newer versions.

So, that particular PDF, in all of its glory, had flaws that caused my APPE to barf it up. I flattened it and the sucker ripped in 70 seconds. The original ripped fine when I turned trapping off too, but took longer than the flat version. I will mention that I have seen the rip fail files, but not in a long time and never due to that specific error.
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Offline Ear

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Re: Xitron speed thest
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2015, 04:13:03 PM »
I'm still sticking to my "don't backsave PDFs to v1.4". I do not find v1.4 to be "perfectly valid" and see no reason to not make the PDF as current as possible (v1.7). For instance, v1.4 does not support full embedding of OpenType fonts.

Anyway, it is the old "what I can get away with" vs "what is correct" argument. I'd rather not just try to get away with the bare minimum v1.4 when I can easily save as v1.7, which is current and proper.
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Offline mattbeals

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Re: Xitron speed thest
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2015, 04:37:35 PM »
Quote from: Ear link=msg=270028 date=1435608783

I'm still sticking to my "don't backsave PDFs to v1.4". I do not find v1.4 to be "perfectly valid" and see no reason to not make the PDF as current as possible (v1.7). For instance, v1.4 does not support full embedding of OpenType fonts.

Anyway, it is the old "what I can get away with" vs "what is correct" argument. I'd rather not just try to get away with the bare minimum v1.4 when I can easily save as v1.7, which is current and proper.



PDF 1.4 is proper and current. The ISO spec's are based on PDF 1.4. I get it, it's your choice.
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Offline Joe

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Re: Xitron speed thest
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2015, 04:44:39 PM »
I find PDF's that have problems trapping are due to a huge amount of paths in the file usually because some illustrator genius made their latest masterpiece without regard to file complexity. Flattening will help it go through the rip and trap but the quality will suffer. When I run across files like this I turn the trapping off and let it fly.
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Offline Ear

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Re: Xitron speed thest
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2015, 05:15:58 PM »
Quote from: mattbeals date=1435610255 link=msg=270034

Quote from: Ear date=1435608783 link=msg=270028

I'm still sticking to my "don't backsave PDFs to v1.4". I do not find v1.4 to be "perfectly valid" and see no reason to not make the PDF as current as possible (v1.7). For instance, v1.4 does not support full embedding of OpenType fonts.

Anyway, it is the old "what I can get away with" vs "what is correct" argument. I'd rather not just try to get away with the bare minimum v1.4 when I can easily save as v1.7, which is current and proper.



PDF 1.4 is proper and current. The ISO spec's are based on PDF 1.4. I get it, it's your choice.

If 1.4 is current, why did they bother updating to 1.5, 1.6 and finally, 1.7?

I say v1.4 is neither proper nor current. Actually, by definition, it is 3 versions prior to the current version. :rotf: :hello: :kona:
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

Offline Ear

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Re: Xitron speed thest
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2015, 05:18:27 PM »
Quote from: Joe date=1435610679 link=msg=270035

I find PDF's that have problems trapping are due to a huge amount of paths in the file usually because some illustrator genius made their latest masterpiece without regard to file complexity. Flattening will help it go through the rip and trap but the quality will suffer. When I run across files like this I turn the trapping off and let it fly.

Exactly. When I saw this file open in Acrobat, it took forever to preview the 9000 paths.

And you are correct... the 3 things that made it rip quickly were: 1) flattening. 2) turning off trapping. 3) giving Matt a wedgie (actually didn't make it rip quicker but it was pretty funny and made me feel better)
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Offline mattbeals

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Re: Xitron speed thest
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2015, 05:22:08 PM »
Quote from: Ear link=msg=270038 date=1435612558

Quote from: mattbeals date=1435610255 link=msg=270034

Quote from: Ear date=1435608783 link=msg=270028

I'm still sticking to my "don't backsave PDFs to v1.4". I do not find v1.4 to be "perfectly valid" and see no reason to not make the PDF as current as possible (v1.7). For instance, v1.4 does not support full embedding of OpenType fonts.

Anyway, it is the old "what I can get away with" vs "what is correct" argument. I'd rather not just try to get away with the bare minimum v1.4 when I can easily save as v1.7, which is current and proper.



PDF 1.4 is proper and current. The ISO spec's are based on PDF 1.4. I get it, it's your choice.

If 1.4 is current, why did they bother updating to 1.5, 1.6 and finally, 1.7?

I say v1.4 is neither proper nor current. Actually, by definition, it is 3 versions prior to the current version. :rotf: :hello: :kona:


Because there is not added benefit to updating the ISO specs. Just because the newer PDF versions exist does not mean the previous ones are invalid or otherwise inferior.
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Offline Ear

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Re: Xitron speed thest
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2015, 05:24:30 PM »
Sometimes it means exactly that.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black