Opaque White on Recycled Kraft

Started by rickself, August 04, 2015, 09:22:18 AM

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rickself

We have a print job that is just black and white, literally. The stock is a recycled kraft 22pt chipboard, final product is a gable top folding carton. We did a test run last week with a double bump on the opaque white and it just doesn't pop. With some fairly small detail, the pressmen are shying away from another hit of opaque white, but to make the client happy, my opinion is try 3 or 4 hits - it can't hurt (says the prepress guy :hello: ), other than the time to get the units all clean to run that many hits of white. Personnaly, to get a white white, I say we should print the 'kraft look' background on a white stock but the client still wants to go with the kraft. I've seen suggestions to put a layer of silver down first but our ink guy at the supply house doesn't like that option (he's the ink guy and not sure if he even knows what recycled kraft is).
ANy tips?
Rick Self, Prepress Oldie
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David

#1
we have done some that do require 3-4 hits of white. It's really your only option. Siver undercoat may work, but depending on the "silver", it may cause a shift in color and still make you do the white several times.
Prepress guy - Retired - Working from home
Livin' la Vida Loca

Farabomb

Maybe 2-4 hits of white then let it dry and do the black pass?

I don't play with packaging as much as I would like but I know we have dry trapped jobs in the past. I also remember doing a white on blue stock and no matter how many hits it just wouldn't show like the customer wanted. We ended up using silver alone and it made it pop like the designer wanted.

Maybe Dave has a good idea, one coat of silver then 2-3 of white. The silver being opaque it might provide a good base for the white.
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andyfest

I would probably suggest to the client to use CCNB (Clay Coated Newsback) instead of chipboard. The face side of CCNB is usually an 80B White Clay Coat, and the inside is just a plain kraft brown or grey, depending on the mill. Normally CCNB is made from 100% recycled fibre so you can appeal your client's environmental side. No white ink required either. If he/she still insists on chipboard, I would do two double hits of Op White with a dry time in between passes. Better yet, if your press is UV-capable use OP White UV ink with 3 hits - load up on every other unit with a drying lamp in between each hit on the empty units.  
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rickself

Thanks all for the input.
If I can talk the press guys into 3 or 4 hits, that's the way to go. They only want to use 2 units and run the sheet through twice, but that's where the misregistration will come in.
And, ya, andy, I would MUCH rather print on a CCNB than a kraft.
Rick Self, Prepress Oldie
Mac Mini M1   G5 Quad-Core Intel Sierra  HP DesignJet Z6 44in   RICOH Pro C5200S
Fiery BCE5  Xitron Navigator v.13   Screen 8000II   Azura Plates   Komori L640

Fontaholic

So how did it turn out, then??

Don't keep us in suspense!  ;)

Cheers,
John the Fontaholic :drunk3:

rickself

We actually got away with 2 hits of white followed by the black and, amazingly enough, I was pleasantly surprised. I'm not sure what the pressroom did differently from the test run and actual run but it was night and day different. Something comparable to the saying of buying a car produced on Monday or one on Friday. Can't remember how it goes but maybe the Friday they were testing the opaque white, they just didn't give a crap how it looked.
Bottom line - The client was very happy.
Rick Self, Prepress Oldie
Mac Mini M1   G5 Quad-Core Intel Sierra  HP DesignJet Z6 44in   RICOH Pro C5200S
Fiery BCE5  Xitron Navigator v.13   Screen 8000II   Azura Plates   Komori L640

Fontaholic

Quote from: rickself on August 13, 2015, 02:44:30 PMWe actually got away with 2 hits of white followed by the black and, amazingly enough, I was pleasantly surprised. I'm not sure what the pressroom did differently from the test run and actual run but it was night and day different. Something comparable to the saying of buying a car produced on Monday or one on Friday. Can't remember how it goes but maybe the Friday they were testing the opaque white, they just didn't give a crap how it looked.
Bottom line - The client was very happy.

And that bottom line is the most important one, especially these days!

rickself

Kinda glad we're a small company. I can only imagine how much a CSR or highbrow salesman with too much time on his hands could muck this thing up!
Rick Self, Prepress Oldie
Mac Mini M1   G5 Quad-Core Intel Sierra  HP DesignJet Z6 44in   RICOH Pro C5200S
Fiery BCE5  Xitron Navigator v.13   Screen 8000II   Azura Plates   Komori L640

David

I can tell you... we gots tons o' them around here... mucking up everything
Prepress guy - Retired - Working from home
Livin' la Vida Loca

Fontaholic

Quote from: rickself on August 17, 2015, 02:14:36 PMKinda glad we're a small company. I can only imagine how much a CSR or highbrow salesman with too much time on his hands could muck this thing up!

Generally, I find I can muck things up just fine on my own...

Cheers,
John the Fontaholic :drunk3: