I'm not sure if this is a Trueflow problem or Indesign. I get pdf files and put them in a layout in Indesign. If they have a spot color i change it to cymk. I make a pdf that is CMYK and send it to Trueflow. I look at the pdf in acrobat and it shows cmyk, but when i make plates the spot colors that i changed to cmyk are missing??? Can anyone please help me!!!
Where did you do the spot to process conversion? Did you make a PDF proof to confirm the spots converted?
I converted the spot color in Indesign. What ever spot color it brought into the swatches. Export a pdf out of Indesign and look at it Acrobat and i only had CMYK. If i convert the spot colors in pitstop before i bring it into Indesign they print fine. I was just wondering why it didn't work converting the colors in Indesign.
Steve, it's Brandon. What now, i didnt understand.. You are converting the "spot" to process in Indesign and then wondering why the spot is printing once you put it through TF? or NOT printing.. if you want to retain the spots for the plates.. You have to leave it designated as a "spot" in Indesign, then the spot will show up in PDF, as well as in TF.. Call me if you need me to help you.
I want the spot to print CMYK.
Delete/convert the spots in the application they originated in. Re-update links in InDesign.
So you converted the spots how by exporting to PDF as CMYK or did you click the spots in the swatches pallet and convert there, or dod you just use ink manager?
ok, here's the gist of it guys(i just got off the phone with Steve, my replacement at old shop)..
pretty crazy here what is going on.. Steve receives PDF instead of the native file. He preflights in Acrobat with Pitstop. Then does layout in Indesign, converts the spot by double clicking the spot in swatches pallet and then exports a "imposed" pdf to send to TF. He is seeing NO SPOT when double checking the "imposed" PDF before sending to TF. He then also sees NO SPOT on softproof that TF creates. However when released to plate, the object that had been spot VANISHES from the plate.
His workaround for now is to convert the spot to process while preflighting in Pitstop, this gave good results, but he needs to be able to count on changing it in Indesign.
The object that vanishes is not white or set to overprint, in case that gets asked.
I'm pretty sure the issue is within TF, not Indesign... but maybe someone here will have some other thoughts.
edit: my typing skills are RUSTY!! :embarrassed:
What happens if he converts the color in Acrobat BEFORE importing into InDesign?
Quote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on July 27, 2009, 12:38:12 PMWhat happens if he converts the color in Acrobat BEFORE importing into InDesign?
QuoteHis workaround for now is to convert the spot to process while preflighting in Pitstop, this gave good results, but he needs to be able to count on changing it in Indesign.
Well, if he has replaced Brandon, the first thing he needs to do is delete all the Boy-Pron off the X drive. :tongue:
I am lost.
He want spot colors?
He doesnt want spot colors?
If he wants CMYK then inport to layout. output new pdf select output open ink manager selct convert all spot to cymk. out put CYMK file
If he wants spot colors import to layout out put new pdf and do nothing with the inmanager.
Am i slow and really missing something?
Quote from: Earendil on July 27, 2009, 12:59:02 PMWell, if he has replaced Brandon, the first thing he needs to do is delete all the Boy-Pron off the X drive. :tongue:
ha. :police:
Quote from: LoganBlade on July 27, 2009, 01:00:13 PMI am lost.
He want spot colors?
He doesnt want spot colors?
If he wants CMYK then inport to layout. output new pdf select output open ink manager selct convert all spot to cymk. out put CYMK file
If he wants spot colors import to layout out put new pdf and do nothing with the inmanager.
Am i slow and really missing something?
re read.
pretty crazy here what is going on.. Steve receives PDF instead of the native file. He preflights in Acrobat with Pitstop. Then does layout in Indesign, converts the spot by double clicking the spot in swatches pallet and then exports a "imposed" pdf to send to TF. He is seeing NO SPOT when double checking the "imposed" PDF before sending to TF. He then also sees NO SPOT on softproof that TF creates. However when released to plate, the object that had been spot VANISHES from the plate.
he doesn't want the spot to print, so he converts it, and checks pdf, coversion successful, runs through TrueFlow, softproof appears right, releases to plate and then objects vanish. the objects he converted. just missing. goodbye. see you when I see you. thanks for wasting the plates, have a nice day... he has a workaround, but ultimately wants to be able to depend on the conversion of the spot in Indesign...
Where did the PDF he was sent come from as in what application made it? I've seen some pretty freaky stuff happen with PDF's, most were made on Windows boxes using subpar applications. I never do conversions in InDesign or Acrobat if I can help it, preferring to let my rip convert from spots to CMYK for consistency. If you do it in Acrobat or InDesign or Quack your results will vary as each program uses a different lookup table to convert. That being said I've never seen or heard of this one happening before.
Quote from: almaink on July 27, 2009, 01:18:04 PMWhere did the PDF he was sent come from as in what application made it? I've seen some pretty freaky stuff happen with PDF's, most were made on Windows boxes using subpar applications. I never do conversions in InDesign or Acrobat if I can help it, preferring to let my rip convert from spots to CMYK for consistency. If you do it in Acrobat or InDesign or Quack your results will vary as each program uses a different lookup table to convert. That being said I've never seen or heard of this one happening before.
I never saw it being in his setup for 4 yrs. You're correct about doing the conversions at the RIP but was never an issue to do it the way he's set up because MOST(90%) of his work comes from artists within the same overall company and are using Illy and Indesign and Photoshop CS3 to create their pdf's they send over, just depends on which artist works on it as to how they built it.
I really think some of the settings in Trueflow need to be looked at, maybe even call Screen and tell a tech what its doing.
Steve mentioned to me on phone that he just upgraded from v5 to v6 of TF so, maybe a setting got changed somehow .. I dont know.. it's very weird that the object disappears on plate but looks fine in the ripped softproof...
When you Export your PDF from Indesign, are you checking Ink Manager, (Output>Ink Mgr...in Export settings)? As in, "Convert all Spots to process"....as almaink alludes to...? Or, as is sometimes the case, converting each one individually in the list. Just thought that base should be covered.
As others have stated...strange.
What exactly are the objects that he is trying to convert? For example if they are spots in an EPS file and you try changing it to process in the swatches pallet I could see some weird stuff happening. If they are native ID objects they should convert fine. Have him try what others have suggested and convert to process at export time using the ink manager and not by changing the colors in the swatches pallet.
Sounds like TF is linking to the original PDF and not the RIPped file for output to the CTP but is using the RIPped PDF for the proofer.
Hmmm.
Can you test this by changing the spelling of a word or alter the position of an object?
Quote from: Joe on July 27, 2009, 06:15:07 PMAs others have stated...strange.
What exactly are the objects that he is trying to convert? For example if they are spots in an EPS file and you try changing it to process in the swatches pallet I could see some weird stuff happening. If they are native ID objects they should convert fine. Have him try what others have suggested and convert to process at export time using the ink manager and not by changing the colors in the swatches pallet.
JOE!!.. I think you may be on to something. IF, in the original layout of the AD that the artist did, the object was placed as an .eps, then saved as a PDF, converting the spot in the swatches pallet might have done something weird...
from what I know the "object" that vanished was just a simple black box.. maybe Steve can help describe better what it was, or even send the PDF to a few people. I don't have Pitstop here at the house or I would have already offered to look at it.
The spot color "New Color Swatch 2" was what was missing. I did just change it in the swatches and not the Ink manager. The file is to large to post so if i can get a e-mail to send the file, it is 748kb i will send the file. I also have another file that is 7.9kb that has spot colors PANTONE 187 CHC and PANTONE 655 CHC in it. They were lost on the plate too. First time i have seen a pantone with CHC???
The only thing I could find on CHC is it's HP's color matching pantone system. It could be LAB based or use some other color mode and that may be the problem. No way of knowing without seeing the file tho. I tried entering PANTONE 655 CHC at Pantone's site only to find there is no such color.
Whats the best way i can send you these 2 files? one 7.9kb and the other 748kb
It sounds like the "custom named " spot colors are not in the true flow spot color table and instead of throwing up an error it's just ignoring them. I'll take a look at the files if no one has tried yet. Email them to joe at b4print dot com.
Quote from: scalver2000 on July 28, 2009, 08:22:25 AMWhats the best way i can send you these 2 files? one 7.9kb and the other 748kb
Use you send it and share the link here?
Here are the 2 files that i had the problem with.. Thanks for ALL YA"LLS HELP
http://www.sendspace.com/delete/ihm94m/b1558c6ada0960acd115b454a6168a7a
http://www.sendspace.com/delete/mh5tg4/15b5eaf0b481bb026e79e40c2311c736
Those links are for deleting the file... send the OTHER link that allows us to download.
:undecided: Ok try these
:banghead:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/mh5tg4
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ihm94m
I suppose I am confused on this. I opened both in Acrobat 8 and used Convert Colors on them. Worked like a charm. I then placed them into InDesign, NO extra colors came over, which is what I expected and sent the job through my RIP. No problems at all.
I did not convert the colors in Acrobat. I placed the original pdf in Indesign, then it import the spot colors, i went to swatches and made them CMYK, then exported pdf, it was CMYK when opened in Acrobat, sent it to TF, check softproof, everything was there, made plates, converted spot colors gone on plate.
When i converted the spots in Acrobat then imported to indesign everything worked fine. I was just wondering why it did not work the other way.
OK I placed this into InDesign CS2 exported as PDF using the output convert to CMYK and none of the spots converted! They R not missing just no conversion. Using the Ink manager's "convert all to process" worked tho. Nothing missing all converted.
Did you make a plate? Everything showed right but it did not come out on the plate. I'll try the Ink Manager and see if that works.
Ok maybe i'm lost now. How do you exported as PDF using the output convert to CMYK, without using the Ink Manager? I changed the spot colors in the swatches and exported a pdf and they converted.
I took all the pages in the 2 PDF files you linked here. I placed them all in InDesign CS3, left the swatches pallet alone, exported a new PDF and converted the spots to process in the Ink Manager from within the PDF export dialog box. The resulting PDF had all of the spots converted to CMYK with nothing missing. I then refined the pages in Prinergy and output 1 bit tiffs to our CTP. I didn't waste any plates so I viewed the resulting files in Photoshop. Nothing was missing. All of the objects that were originally spot were in the CMYK plate files. So then I tried running the job as CMYK + spots and made plate files again. Still nothing was missing. Everything that was spot was on it's own plate file. I tried to get it to do what is happening to you and I can't make it but I don't have True Flow.
This is indeed a shop specific problem I believe. I mean, Steve is saying that even though the PDF created from Indesign(after converting spots via the pallet) shows NO SPOT when viewed in Acrobat, that once he puts it through Trueflow, Trueflow is seeing the converted items as a spot. EVEN THOUGH the item is a CMYK image in acrobat. Personally I think it's a glitch and one that you probably won't find a reason for. Steve, if I were still there and this had popped up, I would have just transformed my Operating Procedure to adopt one of these other successful methods you've listed... that's just my take on it... :ninja:
HAs you tried to rename the job into the work flow and seen if you get different results. Maybe somehow something is getting stuck on the original job with the spot problem? And have you tried a POPO to the system?
Just sounds so strange.
I sure want to THANK EVERYONE for your help !!!!! This is a great site for info. If i have anymore questions i will be back!!!