I got a guy comin in to talk about Rampage
Any good questions I can ask?
I think Rampage uses the APPE?
and also Preps?
Quote from: Tracy on August 29, 2011, 04:07:41 PMI got a guy comin in to talk about Rampage
Any good questions I can ask?
I think Rampage uses the APPE?
and also Preps?
No, I don't believe it uses AdobePPE. I think Rampage has their own iteration of it. Sort of like RampagePPE. :laugh:
Yeah, 'Adobe compliant' was something that Fuji stressed when we were looking. Not to say that other PDF print Engines are no good, just that Adobe is the heavyweight.
If they do run their own inside, not sure how relevant the question 'How Adobe compliant is it?' would be. You may get a 'rep's answer' on that one. :laugh:
What are you using now, Tracy?
Brisque - Seriously
I'm looking at Prinergy, Xitron
and now Rampage
I really want to go with the Prinergy
but I'm having to look at all options.
Quote from: frailer on August 29, 2011, 04:37:59 PMYeah, 'Adobe compliant' was something that Fuji stressed when we were looking. Not to say that other PDF print Engines are no good, just that Adobe is the heavyweight.
If they do run their own inside, not sure how relevant the question 'How Adobe compliant is it?' would be. You may get a 'rep's answer' on that one. :laugh:
yeah, one of my questions would be- what about when Adobe updates?
Quote from: Tracy on August 29, 2011, 08:40:52 PMQuote from: frailer on August 29, 2011, 04:37:59 PMYeah, 'Adobe compliant' was something that Fuji stressed when we were looking. Not to say that other PDF print Engines are no good, just that Adobe is the heavyweight.
If they do run their own inside, not sure how relevant the question 'How Adobe compliant is it?' would be. You may get a 'rep's answer' on that one. :laugh:
yeah, one of my questions would be- what about when Adobe updates?
Kodak is not all that speedy updating APPE when Adobe updates it. You just have to wait for it to come down the pipe.
Prinergy and Preps both being Kodak integrate well (I am sure). I have had some struggles with Rampage and Preps, but I do love Rampage because it's really all I know. I went from making poly plates with RIP IT to Scitex Brisque to Rampage, so I can't tell you if there is anything better.
Is it Paul who will be there? Say Hi and ask him to get on-board here at B4.
I like Rampage, used a few others but not Prinergy.
Will you be using JDF?
Soft proofing?
What proofing devices will you have hooked up?
How many seats will be using Rampage at the same time?
Quote from: Tracy on August 29, 2011, 04:07:41 PMI got a guy comin in to talk about Rampage
Any good questions I can ask?
I think Rampage uses the APPE?
and also Preps?
Ask them what they do, what is the sole-focus of their company.
Ask them how large their customer base is, and what kind of customers they are? (small, large...sheetfed,web...).
Ask them how their support program works, and at what cost.
It will run preps or metrix or.....
I've never used Rampage, but I have heard very good things about their support. I would be a little concerned about the fact that they don't use a true APPE. As complex as transparencies can be, I just prefer the idea that my rip uses a true Adobe engine.
I used an older version of Xitron, and didn't love it. Seemed clunky to me, but I'm sure it has improved over time. At my old shop I oversaw the switch from PSM/Brisque to a Prinergy setup and I was blown away. IMHO, Prinergy blows the doors off of everything I"ve ever used before or since. It's pricey and then of course you have to deal with Kodak (never had a problem with them, but others have had some issues), but it is really well thought out and it just seems to make sense. It is extremely flexible. Only got to use it for a year before I changed jobs.
Now I'm on Apogee. It's a solid choice as well, but I still would pick Prinergy given my druthers.
I'll chime in, Prinergy (Evo or Connect) hands down. I've used Crosfield, Xitron, Apogee, and a bunch of other old junk. Prinergy will keep you safe and warm at night. As Dcurry says, very flexible. Kodak support has been great for me at 2 different shops using Prinergy.
thank you so much
I have more questions to ask!
I hope it is a cool guy named Paul who is coming :smiley:
I'm hoping for Prinergy
I think the only way I will get it
is if anything else is too costly to hook up
to the trendsetter
thanks guys!
Quote from: Tracy on August 30, 2011, 01:35:16 PMthank you so much
I have more questions to ask!
I hope it is a cool guy named Paul who is coming :smiley:
I'm hoping for Prinergy
I think the only way I will get it
is if anything else is too costly to hook up
to the trendsetter
thanks guys!
Nothing will cost more than Prinergy. LOL
the shop I am at has allegedly at least quadrupled the amount of work we're able to do without additional operators since getting Prinergy. Sell it as a payroll saver.
not sure if Esko is more than Prinergy or not, but they're both WAYYYYYYY up there. $$$$$$$
Quote from: tpatterson on August 30, 2011, 02:31:24 PMthe shop I am at has allegedly at least quadrupled the amount of work we're able to do without additional operators since getting Prinergy. Sell it as a payroll saver.
It is definitely that and I think Tracy works alone. She will be able to do the work of four people now instead of two! :laugh:
Quote from: david on August 30, 2011, 02:31:58 PMnot sure if Esko is more than Prinergy or not, but they're both WAYYYYYYY up there. $$$$$$$
It wasn't a couple of years ago but I would be shocked if Kodak has lowered their prices any. :laugh:
I think Kodak has it on sale this week only, special Labor Day sale.
half price :sarcasm:
Quote from: david on August 30, 2011, 03:00:59 PMI think Kodak has it on sale this week only, special Labor Day sale.
half price :sarcasm:
I think...you are dreaming. :tongue:
Trendsetter?
Is CTP in your upgrade plans?
I currently have a Trendsetter 800II
It is lookin like a huge cost (12K) to get a non Kodak Rip
to work with the Trendsetter, getting a new
Imagesetter is not totally out of the question tho.
Rampage says they can do it.
Havn't heard back from Xitron tho.
Quote from: Tracy on August 31, 2011, 07:59:46 AMI currently have a Trendsetter 800II
It is lookin like a huge cost (12K) to get a non Kodak Rip
to work with the Trendsetter, getting a new
Imagesetter is not totally out of the question tho.
Rampage says they can do it.
Havn't heard back from Xitron tho.
I'm 93 1/2% sure Xitron can...at least they can drive a Dolev 800
I'd say yes.
http://www.google.com/search?q=xitron+trendsetter&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a (http://www.google.com/search?q=xitron+trendsetter&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)
I think so too
Im getting conflicting info from my Boss and the Vendor
Quote from: Tracy on August 31, 2011, 11:19:37 AMI think so too
Im getting conflicting info from my Boss and the Vendor
Does your Trendsetter use one-bit tiffs?
Just about any workflow can drive just about any imagesetter - it's just that Kodak makes it a little more difficult (expensive).
Quote from: Joe on August 31, 2011, 11:22:36 AMQuote from: Tracy on August 31, 2011, 11:19:37 AMI think so too
Im getting conflicting info from my Boss and the Vendor
Does your Trendsetter use one-bit tiffs?
We have two that use 1 bits.
Quote from: Joe on August 31, 2011, 11:22:36 AMQuote from: Tracy on August 31, 2011, 11:19:37 AMI think so too
Im getting conflicting info from my Boss and the Vendor
Does your Trendsetter use one-bit tiffs?
I don't think so-actually I think it's the Brisque that doesn't handle them.
glad you asked :laugh:
I was given a 1-bit tif I was able to proof it.
I had to drop it into a hotfolder to rip.
but I wasn't able to send it to the imagesetter
which actually makes sense to me (Brisque)
and preps doesn't see it
would an upgrade of preps see it?
Im on preps 4.2
Quote from: Tracy on August 31, 2011, 03:38:05 PMQuote from: Joe on August 31, 2011, 11:22:36 AMQuote from: Tracy on August 31, 2011, 11:19:37 AMI think so too
Im getting conflicting info from my Boss and the Vendor
Does your Trendsetter use one-bit tiffs?
I don't think so-actually I think it's the Brisque that doesn't handle them.
glad you asked :laugh:
I was given a 1-bit tif I was able to proof it.
I had to drop it into a hotfolder to rip.
but I wasn't able to send it to the imagesetter
which actually makes sense to me (Brisque)
and preps doesn't see it
would an upgrade of preps see it?
Im on preps 4.2
Hoo Tracy, if you are that far back, maybe consider leapfrogging past all that 'impo-app' stuff. PREPS and Dynastrip are but mere memories for me, and not particularly fond ones. May have slowed the descent towards dementia, a little, is all
Earendil, back me up on this... Sierra/XMF integrated impo rocks, ya? At least try and get a demo before you leap.
Might be a bit difficult though; the rep may not want to risk coming into Lindbergh Field. :laugh: Ear may know where their sales lot are distributed over there. :undecided:
.....
addit: See screenshot. F'rinstance, the (albeit simple), impo shown is do-able from scratch in about 45 secs. Custom Marks, custom gutters, slugline.... the works. Connect pages>Go/render>coffee.... Even fancy ones don't take much longer.
Hang on, I'll risk Lindbergh Field... comin' in.... :laugh:
Quote from: Tracy on August 31, 2011, 03:38:05 PMQuote from: Joe on August 31, 2011, 11:22:36 AMQuote from: Tracy on August 31, 2011, 11:19:37 AMI think so too
Im getting conflicting info from my Boss and the Vendor
Does your Trendsetter use one-bit tiffs?
I don't think so-actually I think it's the Brisque that doesn't handle them.
glad you asked :laugh:
I was given a 1-bit tif I was able to proof it.
I had to drop it into a hotfolder to rip.
but I wasn't able to send it to the imagesetter
which actually makes sense to me (Brisque)
and preps doesn't see it
would an upgrade of preps see it?
Im on preps 4.2
No, you can't put a one-bit tiff in Preps...any version. It is a screened output file format.
What do you send to the trendsetter right now Tracy?
Well I don't know if you remember the Brisque
It rips traps and creates postcript and then you get a .job
I send the .job to the imagesetter
Preps impos also send as a .job
So what creates the 1 bit tifs?
A .job, as far as I know but I never used Brisque, is a preps imposition file. The Brisque .job file might be the same thing or it might not. I don't know but on the theory that it is...once you have the .job file open in Preps you would print it to a RIP or export .ps or .pjtf or .jdf to send to the RIP. From there the RIP would take over and when ready to output to the platesetter the RIP would separate, screen, and convert to one-bit tif. It sounds like your Trendsetter has a RIP in front of it that takes the .job file and goes and gets the high res pages and converts them at the trendsettter to whatever it needs. Might be a one-bit tiff as G_Town has said he has two of them that uses one-bit tiffs. The simplest method for all of this is to put a tiff catcher at the Trendsetter and then have whatever workflow you get to feed it one-bit tiffs. What kind of file do you place in Preps right now when you impose? PS? PDF? EPS? Something else?
its postscript
Ok the 1 bit tif is making more sense to me now
So it is possible for my trendsetter to accept 1 bit tif
So your rip is sending pdfs to your imagesetter
where something inbetween is creating the 1 bit tif
thanks Joe!
Quote from: Tracy on August 31, 2011, 09:55:43 PMits postscript
Ok the 1 bit tif is making more sense to me now
So it is possible for my trendsetter to accept 1 bit tif
So your rip is sending pdfs to your imagesetter
where something inbetween is creating the 1 bit tif
thanks Joe!
We feed Prinergy PDF's. It normalizes, traps, color manages, and then imposes them. When we are ready to send to the platesetter, Prinergy generates the screened one-bit tifs and sends them to a tiff catcher on the CTP PC.
G_Town says his Trendsetters use one-bit tif so yes I believe it can use them. Don't be surprised if it's an added expense to make yours able to receive one-bit tiffs as you would definitely need some kind of tiff catcher on the front. And by tiff catcher I mean that it's basically a computer program on a pc with hot folders that your RIP sends the one-bit tiffs to. We have folders for each press (6) as they all use different size plates. The tiff catcher then feeds the one-bit tiffs to the CTP to expose the plate.
Quote from: Joe on August 31, 2011, 10:11:00 PMQuote from: Tracy on August 31, 2011, 09:55:43 PMits postscript
Ok the 1 bit tif is making more sense to me now
So it is possible for my trendsetter to accept 1 bit tif
So your rip is sending pdfs to your imagesetter
where something inbetween is creating the 1 bit tif
thanks Joe!
We feed Prinergy PDF's. It normalizes, traps, color manages, and then imposes them. When we are ready to send to the platesetter, Prinergy generates the screened one-bit tifs and sends them to a tiff catcher on the CTP PC.
G_Town says his Trendsetters use one-bit tif so yes I believe it can use them. Don't be surprised if it's an added expense to make yours able to receive one-bit tiffs as you would definitely need some kind of tiff catcher on the front. And by tiff catcher I mean that it's basically a computer program on a pc with hot folders that your RIP sends the one-bit tiffs to. We have folders for each press (6) as they all use different size plates. The tiff catcher then feeds the one-bit tiffs to the CTP to expose the plate.
Curious on a couple of things there, Joe. You have to feed Prinergy Templates from PREPS? If you need to change the impo in some way (like adjust gutter width), that means opening that parent Template in PREPS and doing a Save As, then importing back into Prinergy? Curiosity, is all.
On one-bit TIFFs, it has been mentioned that if we needed such output (we don't... all Fuji to 'setter), that it comes 'at a price'. I assume that the PC/TIFF catcher is what they're referring to, and that in most instances that proprietary stuff is owned by the exporter, (Fuji, Kodak, whoever...= :money:). Am I reading this right?
Quote from: frailer on September 01, 2011, 02:44:50 AMCurious on a couple of things there, Joe. You have to feed Prinergy Templates from PREPS? If you need to change the impo in some way (like adjust gutter width), that means opening that parent Template in PREPS and doing a Save As, then importing back into Prinergy? Curiosity, is all.
On one-bit TIFFs, it has been mentioned that if we needed such output (we don't... all Fuji to 'setter), that it comes 'at a price'. I assume that the PC/TIFF catcher is what they're referring to, and that in most instances that proprietary stuff is owned by the exporter, (Fuji, Kodak, whoever...= :money:). Am I reading this right?
We specify the Preps template in Prinergy. We don't have to open Preps at all for that. Only if we need to make a change to the template do we have to open Preps. If we do need to, we would modify the template and save it but then we just issue an "Update Imposition" in Prinergy and it will update the imposition with the template changes we made. Our PC and tiff catcher came with our CTP. If their CTP doesn't have one then yes that would be an added expense. Then there is a usually a charge by the RIP maker (Kodak, Fuji, Rampage, etc...) that makes the one-bit tiff for that option. So no, the PC/Tiff catcher does not have to belong to the RIP manufacturer.
Quote from: Joe on September 01, 2011, 08:27:03 AMThen there is a usually a charge by the RIP maker (Kodak, Fuji, Rampage, etc...) that makes the one-bit tiff for that option. So no, the PC/Tiff catcher does not have to belong to the RIP manufacturer.
Double toll gate. Figures. :laugh:
Well I got a 1-bit tif thru to the imagesetter
it was supplied by the rampage people.
my boss is a little excited about rampage
Im really trying to talk him into prinergy
I gave some wrong info to the xitron people on the dpi setting
and their 1-bit tif didn't work, I havn't heard back from them.
I think I messed up on that one.
what kind of server do rampage users use? :laugh:
Quote from: Tracy on October 27, 2011, 01:12:01 PMwhat kind of server do rampage users use? :laugh:
The Rampage box itself runs on Windows, as must the server where files are stored. Rampage prefers you have two separate boxes and not RIP files stored on the same box where Rampage resides. The Rampage Client runs on Mac.
You can build your own Rampage box, but Rampage won't support it. That, and from what I hear, it's a real PITA.
The Rampage boxes are built by a company called Proactive Technologies, and run about $5k. Your server can be any server. We just happened to also buy a Proactive Technologies server box as well. Our Rampage is 2 versions behind... almost 3 now and runs Windows 2000 Pro. Our server is a Windows 2k3 server OS. Older Rampage clients ran on OS9, but I think now you need OSX or better, which shouldn't be an issue.
Quote from: Tracy on October 27, 2011, 01:12:01 PMwhat kind of server do rampage users use? :laugh:
I prefer tall redheads, but really, any hair color will do...
oh, you mean something different...
NVM
oh yeah, you can use just about anything for a server, old Macs, old PCs (what I have, haha). And, all of my Servers are Proactive boxes.
I have windows 2003 server right now
I kinda like the idea of Prinergy coming with a server.
One less thing for me to figure out
Im getting a little stressed, but I will get thru this.
How much are they quoting you for Rampage? Does their quote include the server?
I can let you know, I will get that info soon
what kind of server do you use?
Our Rampage is v10 and it's on Win 2000 Pro. It's an Intel dual processor Xeon 3.0 Ghz... with a 60G SCSI hard drive that I had to replace once on a very fun-filled day :sarcasm:
Thanks man!
I'll be back! :laugh:
Tracy, The new Rampage boxes can run as both a server and a rip. I just got the latest version and the new box does both. You may need another PC to work as a shooter tho but I'm pretty sure any standard PC can be used for that purpose. I know one thing going from version 10.6 to version 12.1 was like trading in a 1950 get out and push, for a 2012 Rolls Royce. It's fast, has tons of new preflight options and even fixes nasty Publisher and Word files on the fly.
I'm so glad I don't have to mess with the RIPS anymore. In all of the other shops I have worked at I've had to keep the network, computers and RIPs up and running. We have two guys here full-time that keep the shop humming along.
Quote from: almaink on October 28, 2011, 07:27:12 AMTracy, The new Rampage boxes can run as both a server and a rip. I just got the latest version and the new box does both. You may need another PC to work as a shooter tho but I'm pretty sure any standard PC can be used for that purpose. I know one thing going from version 10.6 to version 12.1 was like trading in a 1950 get out and push, for a 2012 Rolls Royce. It's fast, has tons of new preflight options and even fixes nasty Publisher and Word files on the fly.
That IS possible, but unless something has changed, or unless you're buying from a 3rd party, Rampage has always traditionally frowned on having server files reside on the same box as the RIP. We went through HELL trying to make this happen at my old shop, and Rampage was not very accommodating. We ended up going through a third party, who promptly disappeared and didn't honor our service contract. Eventually Rampage relented and we got a year of support, but acted like it was a friggin' special favor.
It's changed because I'm doing it. The new Rampage box is running Windows 7 and also working as the server. The new boxes also have a raid set up and a third drive to run the system. I asked about a separate server box, because I had one already, and was told it's no longer needed.
Just saw your post today Alma! thanks!
I just got this info from Rampage too.
I'm still trying to see if the imagesetter is going to work
I created a hotfolder on the printconsole and it would not accept the 1-bit tif
unless I did something wrong.
anyone out there go from kodak to rampage with the existing imagesetter?
Digi- they don't give you updates?
Once your support runs out, no more updates. They had an update like a week after our package expired here and they wouldn't give it to us.
You should be able to run to your existing imagesetter using Rampage, but you have to prep Rampage first. I recently had to rebuild the hard drive on my Rampage box, and I made a step-by-step reminder file so if it happened again, or if I try to build my own server I know what to do without calling support. Replace the name of your imagesetter, proofer hot folders (EFI/GMG or whatever) and server/volumes from the ones you see in this file: http://www.sendspace.com/file/xslv0m (http://www.sendspace.com/file/xslv0m)
Thanks Digi
Ill check it out
prolly above my skill level tho
Tracy, any luck?
Did you change the device setting for the imagesetter? Most times you need a different PCI card in the shooter for different devices as well Tracy.
Well we havn't gotten the Rampage yet, So I will have to wait and see still.
Thanks for your input-I will keep you posted
I'll know my boss is serious when he gets the new Mac, that's my first step