5 color with black overprint

[rickself]

Need some information about printing 4 color plus spot with black type and black shadows overprinting. We have a 40" 6 color Komori.
In my logical way of thinking, the black will have to go down last so as to overprint the spot color, correct? I'm getting blank looks from the rest of the crew. Black type is too small to trap and needs to overprint. So my logic says that the spot color has to go down before the black.
Rick

[David]

if it's overprinting, there should not be any trapping. Let the press room decide the lay down order for the colors, and if they do it wrong, it's their nickel.

[t-pat]

your logic is correct. If the spot is a fairly transparent color you might get away with putting it on top of the black but I'd advise against it. Press crew will likely need to move inks around and do some washup to get there. Seen a lot of jobs bounce or get reprinted because they didn't take this step so just tell them they gotta suck it up.

[Skryber]

My husband is a pressman and he is constantly changing ink sequence depending on the spot color and the artwork. What's the spot color anyway? Putting black down last may mess up print in another area on the sheet so it's always job dependent.

[Farabomb]

The pressmen should really be the ones that know how the press likes it. Yes, logically I would think black goes down last but it's actually the opposite. You want the black down on the white substrate first, if you lay down the colors first the black will pick up the reflective cast of the colors below it.

At least that's how we do it here.

[rickself]

We have 2 jobs, both 5 color. One is 485 Red, the other is blue 2925.
I'd say they have to move the black to the last position. I'll let them hash it around in the pressroom.

[t-pat]

if you're overprinting, you're overprinting. That's why it's called OVERprinting not underprinting.
For shits and giggles see how black looks underneath PMS 877 and you'll know what's up. Just sayin, I've seen this fail too many times where the pms was fairly opaque.

[Skryber]

Yeah, let them hash it out. My husband has run sequences that made no sense. Yellows 1st, metallics last. Just make a note that says "Sequence=Pressman's Choice." Otherwise they'll be coming in there saying WTF?

[t-pat]

so thinking that the pressman always knows best leads where? 

With those particular colors I don't expect you'll have a big problem. See what a nice dense yellow pms looks like on top of black - turns it turd brown. Metallics just wash out the black if on top.

Just don't let them trick you into reworking the file somehow if it doesn't lay down as expected, it'll be the sequence not the trapping or whatever that will make it not good.

Been there, done that, got the sippy cup to prove it.

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

We have 2 jobs, both 5 color. One is 485 Red, the other is blue 2925.
I'd say they have to move the black to the last position. I'll let them hash it around in the pressroom.

Tell Jason to make it work... do I need to have a talk with him? :laugh:

[rickself]

We have 2 jobs, both 5 color. One is 485 Red, the other is blue 2925.
I'd say they have to move the black to the last position. I'll let them hash it around in the pressroom.

Tell Jason to make it work... do I need to have a talk with him? :laugh:

Ya really! I think I have made my point.
But if they really want to I'll let them hang plates in whatever order they want and let them wash up before getting it right. When the boss gets back, I'll let him make the call...in my favor I am sure. You know the boxes, DCS. Everpet Red and Blue - we're printing 5 color this time.

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

We have 2 jobs, both 5 color. One is 485 Red, the other is blue 2925.
I'd say they have to move the black to the last position. I'll let them hash it around in the pressroom.

Tell Jason to make it work... do I need to have a talk with him? :laugh:

Ya really! I think I have made my point.
But if they really want to I'll let them hang plates in whatever order they want and let them wash up before getting it right. When the boss gets back, I'll let him make the call...in my favor I am sure. You know the boxes, DCS. Everpet Red and Blue - we're printing 5 color this time.

Has Everpet given you working AI files? I always got flattened PDFs. Hated that job. OUCH! 5-color? YUCK!

[rickself]

We have 2 jobs, both 5 color. One is 485 Red, the other is blue 2925.
I'd say they have to move the black to the last position. I'll let them hash it around in the pressroom.

Tell Jason to make it work... do I need to have a talk with him? :laugh:

Ya really! I think I have made my point.
But if they really want to I'll let them hang plates in whatever order they want and let them wash up before getting it right. When the boss gets back, I'll let him make the call...in my favor I am sure. You know the boxes, DCS. Everpet Red and Blue - we're printing 5 color this time.

Has Everpet given you working AI files? I always got flattened PDFs. Hated that job. OUCH! 5-color? YUCK!

Yep. We're going 5 color because they can't seem to keep the color consistent and there's too much waste - at least that's what came down the pipeline. But then, I'm just a prepress guy!