Happy New Year to every one!
Getting straight to the subject.
The printshop i'm working finally hit rock bottom - even though we still have a lot of work.
The owner moved everyhing to a ''new'' company and he made new busines proposals to the remaining stuff.
For me the deal he proposed is working from home via teamviewer and he asked me to tell him what i would charge.
I'm thinking an hourly rate that is similar to my current one.
To achieve this since i'll not be an employee anymore but a freelancer/service provider i need to figure out somethings.
First medical care/pension and tax expenses.
Secondly an accountant fee.
Already done the above.
Am i missing something i should also consider?
Would you propose another charging method?
How can we both agree on how much time a job takes to be done, sometimes you need ten minutes to preflight and impose a well prepared file, some other times you ( i at least ) may take a couple of hours fixing problems.
Calls should be expected on various times a day, he said he'll need me for a couple of hours every afternoon but we both know that is not going to work.
I'm all ears on whatever you might wanna say, or for me to clarify!
Thanks in advance!
could an admin fix the spelling on the title please?
I was going to mention the commute part but that won't work out in your favor.
MAKE SURE your available hours are clear. If you're 9-5 don't ever pick up the phone or remote in outside of those hours. If you do they WILL abuse it, often.
Make sure you keep track of the jobs and how much times it takes. If there is a client that regularly sends garbage, make sure the boss knows and does something about it. I'd start at an hour to set up a job soup to nuts. Maybe create something like book time that we use in auto repair. For example, a late 80's Ford LTD book time for a heater core is 12 hours. You have to take the whole dash off. Maybe depending on page count the price goes up.
I'm actually kinda considering this as I am leaving this hellhole shortly. I would need a body there to load paper and plates but it's not going to be me.
This sounds like a "we'll call you when we need you" type of thing. I would be hesitant if he can't guarantee you a certain number of hours that you find acceptable. There is one reason and one reason alone why he is doing this. To save money. My guess some of his savings is coming out of your pocket.
Quote from: Joe on January 02, 2018, 08:02:05 AMThis sounds like a "we'll call you when we need you" type of thing. I would be hesitant if he can't guarantee you a certain number of hours that you find acceptable. There is one reason and one reason alone why he is doing this. To save money. My guess some of his savings is coming out of your pocket.
I gotta agree with Joe on this - you need to make sure there is a minimum amount of hours he is paying you every week regardless of the work.. you need to eat and pay your bills right?
From my experience, freelance is not all it's cracked up to be... you end up working too many hours for too little pay, and then have to struggle to get your money out of people.
My advice is to find another full time job, and tell your old boss to shove it up his arse...
Best of luck to you.
sounds too good to be true!!!
agreed, ask about your minimum pay.
If you get everything you want it's a sweet deal.
my experience, the "getting paid" part is hard.
You have to learn to be a bill collector, cause people are gonna want you to do this shit for free, because they know it's not that hard to do and you can do all of it in a couple of minutes.
Your freelance hourly rate should be much higher than your employee hourly rate - at least double.
I would set a minimum time per job, so even if it only takes you a couple minutes you bill 1/2 hour. This helps to average out all the shit jobs that take a little longer.
Thanks all very much!
Any one doin that already?
not me, I gave it up... it was too much work.
that and the no Insurance thingie. It cost me more than I was making.
Don't forget about your income taxes either, you get to have more fun figuring all that out as well.
:shoots_self:
Quote from: david on January 02, 2018, 01:14:54 PMnot me, I gave it up... it was too much work.
that and the no Insurance thingie. It cost me more than I was making.
Don't forget about your income taxes either, you get to have more fun figuring all that out as well.
:shoots_self:
yep - having the discipline to set aside about 30% of every check you manage to collect... too much work, no thanks.
Quote from: motormount on January 02, 2018, 01:05:16 PMThanks all very much!
Any one doin that already?
I freelance web development but I still have my full time prepress job. If I only had my freelance work I would surely starve to death. I would need at least 8 freelance jobs consistently to keep me busy enough to be considered 'full time'. Another thing to consider if you go into freelance work is if you have multiple freelance jobs who gets priority if more than one wants you to do work at the same time another one, or more, wants work done.
Personally I see no upside in going this route except for your boss. I can see doing it if that is all that is available and you are going to be unemployed without it but I would surely start looking for full time employment very soon. Like 30 seconds after he made this 'offer' to you.
What do you do about software in this case? Seeing as you have to rent Adobe CC and you get nothing when you cancel. What if they don't give you any work for a month? Are you still shelling out for Adobe or are they providing the license?
As an Independent Contractor, you need to demand a higher rate, since you will not be covered under the company blanket. What if you were working at home, and had an accident? Worker's comp will NOT cover you, and it's highly unlikely you'll still get your medical benefits under this new structuring. Most shop charge $80-120/hr for prepress work, so why are you only getting $X? You're now "the shop," so your hourly rate is also up in that range. I've hired many prepressers in my day, and I was paying them $50-75 an hour almost 20 years ago (of course that was in the Bay Area of California where wages are higher).
There is also no guarantee of employment, hence no dependable paycheck coming in so you need to build in additional $$$ per hour for reserves in slow times. I also wouldn't sign any document that guarantees exclusivity - keep your options open. Either secure full time employment elsewhere, or if you like the idea of being your own boss, expand your client base.
I freelance for a half dozen other print shops around town as a fill-in prepresser. I get between $20-25 hour to fill in when their people want a day off or a vacation, and at the shops I work at they accommodate my schedule so I can work my regular job and then go over there for a few hours in the evenings.
Thanks for your replies!
I was looking for a full time job elsewhere the whole last year, only found less paid ones - the couple of times i had the chance for an interview...
Things are weird in the trade, even more here in Greece, in one interview the owner asked me if i could bring some of my current company's clientele to him...( he was not joking )
The bill collecting factor is another joke on it's own.
It was hard getting paid even though i was there, and all the time i had to tell to providers who were calling to get paid that the management was out of the office, imagine now :-P
The only think i'm lacking is packaging experience, i do all ''mainstream'' prepress chores, plus event/studio photography and a little graphic design - check my site here, everything you see is shot/designed by me https://www.lightinblack.com/
How's that hard to get a job?
$50-75 and hour? Holy shit.
I've been stuck at $21 for well, about 10 years.
I think he meant business prepress charges to customers. We only charge customers $45.00 per hour but our company isn't paying anyone here that much.
Quote from: motormount on January 03, 2018, 01:44:12 AMThanks for your replies!
I was looking for a full time job elsewhere the whole last year, only found less paid ones - the couple of times i had the chance for an interview...
Things are weird in the trade, even more here in Greece, in one interview the owner asked me if i could bring some of my current company's clientele to him...( he was not joking )
The bill collecting factor is another joke on it's own.
It was hard getting paid even though i was there, and all the time i had to tell to providers who were calling to get paid that the management was out of the office, imagine now :-P
The only think i'm lacking is packaging experience, i do all ''mainstream'' prepress chores, plus event/studio photography and a little graphic design - check my site here, everything you see is shot/designed by me https://www.lightinblack.com/
How's that hard to get a job?
That is some nice stuff on your website. Have you looked for graphic designer jobs instead of prepress? I've heard on the news about how tough it is in Greece these days. You'll have to do what you have to do. Good luck to you.
Sounds like your boss is trying to cut expenses. Ideally, he'd love to pay you the same amount he did before but without any benefits. That's not how it works.
I'm sure a lot of bosses think just the lure of working from home will convince people to jump at an opportunity like this.
Quote from: Possum on January 03, 2018, 08:16:48 AMSounds like your boss is trying to cut expenses. Ideally, he'd love to pay you the same amount he did before but without any benefits. That's not how it works.
In addition to only paying him when he has work for him to do... (i.e. if its a slow week for the sales crew - and there's only a handful of jobs - he only pays a few hours of prepress time)
That's also not how it works.
I had a similar offer a few years ago. My reply - 'Sack Me'. At least that way I got some state benefits while I found another job. Not sure how that would work out for you in Greece right now. It's a shitty situation to be in. I tried freelance after that and did some jobs for my former employer until they went under a few months later. I can confirm what others have said - freelance is a mug's game. No guarantee of work, no guaranteed income, no employment rights, no paid holidays, and getting paid for what work you get takes up way too much time. I made a go of it for a couple years but now I'm in a part time job on a really low rate (just above minimum wage) and its a lot better than freelance.
Quote from: Joe on January 03, 2018, 08:09:42 AMI think he meant business prepress charges to customers. We only charge customers $45.00 per hour but our company isn't paying anyone here that much.
That might be part of the reason we're so dead. Iirc we charge $175/hr for prepress. He's still thinking it's the 80's
Oooooooohhhhh...I remember at the prepress house I used to work at we had the almighty Linotype-Hell Chromacom system and we were charging customers $275 an hour. This was in 1990. Our customers today would drop over dead if we told them prepress would cost them $275 an hour. Which come to think of it...gives me an idea. <evil laugh> :dev2:
Quote from: Farabomb on January 03, 2018, 07:13:29 AM$50-75 and hour? Holy shit.
I've been stuck at $21 for well, about 10 years.
Yeah - outside vendors get that... and we charge between $80-120/hr for prepress work depending on the complexity.... but I only see a small portion of that myself. Basically, I make about the same yearly for the past 17-18 years. But I also take a lot of unpaid time off.
We are -were- large enough not to bother our clients with lame issues like charging for fixing their files as long as they kept bringing their files to print them!
- and then wait for 3 months at least to get paid even though we had bought the paper and inks in cash beforehand ;- )
That is some nice stuff on your website. Have you looked for graphic designer jobs instead of prepress? I've heard on the news about how tough it is in Greece these days. You'll have to do what you have to do. Good luck to you.
Joe, graphic designers always got paid less here - apart from some people way up in the chain with more management obligations than creative/production ones.
I'll do whatever i'll find, but doing what i know best me thinks will get me more bucks, and that's why we go to work, right?
Wait, you're not charging for fixing files?
Methinks I figured out why the shop is going under. You can't give things away and expect to stay open.
Run man, run far away from your boss and his delusions.
Quote from: Farabomb on January 03, 2018, 11:30:37 AMWait, you're not charging for fixing files?
Methinks I figured out why the shop is going under. You can't give things away and expect to stay open.
Run man, run far away from your boss and his delusions.
Me thinks he was being sarcastic.
I just assume graphic designers make more than prepress people here because they take like 26 weeks of vacation a year it seems. Gotta have money to visit exotic locations around the world that often. Or maybe they were just born into a wealthy family and graphic design makes it look like they have a real job but mainly it is just a hobby. :rotf:
Instead of calling yourself a prepress freelancer call yourself a prepress consultant. They make way more money than freelancers.
Quote from: Joe on January 03, 2018, 11:32:48 AMcall yourself a prepress consultant. They make way more money than freelancers.
:rotf: That's what's on my resume on LinkedIn. I swear!
Quote from: Joe on January 03, 2018, 11:32:48 AMI just assume graphic designers make more than prepress people here because they take like 26 weeks of vacation a year it seems. Gotta have money to visit exotic locations around the world that often. Or maybe they were just born into a wealthy family and graphic design makes it look like they have a real job but mainly it is just a hobby. :rotf:
Instead of calling yourself a prepress freelancer call yourself a prepress consultant. They make way more money than freelancers.
just updated my linkedin profile!
Quote from: ninjaPB_43 on January 03, 2018, 11:32:44 AMMe thinks he was being sarcastic.
You thinks right, but on the wrong direction. -or i didn't get it -
I was being sarcastic on how the company worked.
In terms of error fixing we had 3 kinds of customers
A) Those with a good creative dep.
I mailed them the issues, files came back good most of the times.
B)Those with average creative deparments.
Had to guide them trough phone
C)Those who didn't need a creative department.
Had to use my trusty pitstop 9 or my illy cs (no cc) or my cs2 ps/indy or all of the above.
To be honest i never expected to last that long...
Quote from: motormount on January 03, 2018, 04:06:59 PMQuote from: ninjaPB_43 on January 03, 2018, 11:32:44 AMMe thinks he was being sarcastic.
I was being sarcastic on how the company worked.
That's exactly how I thought you were being sarcastic..
Your shop/clientele sounds like MANY in the industry here in the states.
''Your shop/clientele sounds like MANY in the industry here in the states.''
20something years ago i thought that in the states and central eu everything was done right, management/workflow/software hardware upgrades, all was done under careful planning and detailed procedures.
Then fckin internet came.
Nope, it's the same shitshow everywhere. Some places are better, some worse.
Quote from: Farabomb on January 04, 2018, 09:11:52 AMNope, it's the same shitshow everywhere. Some places are better, some worse.
definately same sh*t everywhere, its just that now with the internet we can all complain to each other about it!
No matter where in the world we live
Even the "shithole countries"?
:facepalm:
I knew I would see that here soon. :lmao:
And you can now go into the weekend not disappointed.
And I shall...