InDesign... Here's a New One...

[tapdn]

well, if you keep talking to her then you must like it. :evil:

[beermonster]

sadly i have to - it will soon be over tho

[tapdn]

Best of luck mate.

[youston]

Beer, if it's any help, the next comic strip will contain a plethora of options for your consideration as pertains to body disposal.

[beermonster]

ohh fantastic youston - i can't wait

hurry up now you good comic strip folks :cheesy:

[Ear]

Hey DCS, I know this will distract from the invigorating conversation about freehand and killing people but, in response to the original problem...

You're on a workflow now, right? Teach your clients to supply quality PDF and you won't have problems like this.

IMO, the problem isn't people using strange plugins or even strange applications (like freehand). This can all be solved by getting them to supply good PDF. I have been on a PDF workflow for 4-5 years now and trust me, focus on getting THEM to do the PDF.

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

Hey DCS, I know this will distract from the invigorating conversation about freehand and killing people but, in response to the original problem...

You're on a workflow now, right? Teach your clients to supply quality PDF and you won't have problems like this.

IMO, the problem isn't people using strange plugins or even strange applications (like freehand). This can all be solved by getting them to supply good PDF. I have been on a PDF workflow for 4-5 years now and trust me, focus on getting THEM to do the PDF.

Can't do it. Most of the shit I work on is NOT set up correctly in native, so PDF is trash as well. It would be like having to explain how to make cereal to a coma patient. They just don't give a shit. I do custom offset jobs, no two are the same. Originally, I don't know if you guys picked up on this... even though InDesign asked for a particular plug-in, it opened anyway. I had just never seen it, and wanted to warn the gang.

I prefer working native because it puts all the control in my hands. I don't have to worry about workarounds, or hacking, or having to jury-rig PDFs to print. I do have all the font probs, support, you know, but I am comfortable with this. I have been doing it a long time. One thing that has not changed... customers. They are as retarded as ever, but now there are more. Working native keeps your skills sharp, I can work any DTP better than probably 90% of the Designers out there, so in turn that makes me more money with freelance. When I get a PDF from me, it works every time. Go figure.

We do different jobs Ear. If I was doing yours (Web), I would do it like you, but I don't, so I do it like me (Custom Offset.)

[Ear]

Hey DCS, I know this will distract from the invigorating conversation about freehand and killing people but, in response to the original problem...

You're on a workflow now, right? Teach your clients to supply quality PDF and you won't have problems like this.

IMO, the problem isn't people using strange plugins or even strange applications (like freehand). This can all be solved by getting them to supply good PDF. I have been on a PDF workflow for 4-5 years now and trust me, focus on getting THEM to do the PDF.

Can't do it. Most of the shit I work on is NOT set up correctly in native, so PDF is trash as well. It would be like having to explain how to make cereal to a coma patient. They just don't give a shit. I do custom offset jobs, no two are the same. Originally, I don't know if you guys picked up on this... even though InDesign asked for a particular plug-in, it opened anyway. I had just never seen it, and wanted to warn the gang.

I prefer working native because it puts all the control in my hands. I don't have to worry about workarounds, or hacking, or having to jury-rig PDFs to print. I do have all the font probs, support, you know, but I am comfortable with this. I have been doing it a long time. One thing that has not changed... customers. They are as retarded as ever, but now there are more. Working native keeps your skills sharp, I can work any DTP better than probably 90% of the Designers out there, so in turn that makes me more money with freelance. When I get a PDF from me, it works every time. Go figure.

We do different jobs Ear. If I was doing yours (Web), I would do it like you, but I don't, so I do it like me (Custom Offset.)

I do understand and I do accept native and still get native from time to time.

I do web offset, that is true, I have two of the big monsters to feed but I also do custom sheetfed work on our two Heidis. We have a 2 color 19x25 and a 20x29 Speedmaster with UV coater. I do things with metallic, various spot colors, spot varnish, custom dies, etc... and yes, in those cases, I do like to have native files. However, I still have them at least try to do a PDF and include it with the packaged job, sometimes I'm pleased to find that I can use it. I find, if I take a little time, most designers actually do want to learn and love me for taking the time to teach them. There are pitfalls to opening native files over having the designer do the PDF off their own machine. My speed, productivity and accuracy have better than doubled since embracing customer PDF.

So I partially agree but I still like to press on from the old ways. Hell, the camera is in the scrap yard and we used it as little as 6-7 years ago.

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

Hey DCS, I know this will distract from the invigorating conversation about freehand and killing people but, in response to the original problem...

You're on a workflow now, right? Teach your clients to supply quality PDF and you won't have problems like this.

IMO, the problem isn't people using strange plugins or even strange applications (like freehand). This can all be solved by getting them to supply good PDF. I have been on a PDF workflow for 4-5 years now and trust me, focus on getting THEM to do the PDF.

Can't do it. Most of the shit I work on is NOT set up correctly in native, so PDF is trash as well. It would be like having to explain how to make cereal to a coma patient. They just don't give a shit. I do custom offset jobs, no two are the same. Originally, I don't know if you guys picked up on this... even though InDesign asked for a particular plug-in, it opened anyway. I had just never seen it, and wanted to warn the gang.

I prefer working native because it puts all the control in my hands. I don't have to worry about workarounds, or hacking, or having to jury-rig PDFs to print. I do have all the font probs, support, you know, but I am comfortable with this. I have been doing it a long time. One thing that has not changed... customers. They are as retarded as ever, but now there are more. Working native keeps your skills sharp, I can work any DTP better than probably 90% of the Designers out there, so in turn that makes me more money with freelance. When I get a PDF from me, it works every time. Go figure.

We do different jobs Ear. If I was doing yours (Web), I would do it like you, but I don't, so I do it like me (Custom Offset.)

I do understand and I do accept native and still get native from time to time.

I do web offset, that is true, I have two of the big monsters to feed but I also do custom sheetfed work on our two Heidis. We have a 2 color 19x25 and a 20x29 Speedmaster with UV coater. I do things with metallic, various spot colors, spot varnish, custom dies, etc... and yes, in those cases, I do like to have native files. However, I still have them at least try to do a PDF and include it with the packaged job, sometimes I'm pleased to find that I can use it. I find, if I take a little time, most designers actually do want to learn and love me for taking the time to teach them. There are pitfalls to opening native files over having the designer do the PDF off their own machine. My speed, productivity and accuracy have better than doubled since embracing customer PDF.

So I partially agree but I still like to press on from the old ways. Hell, the camera is in the scrap yard and we used it as little as 6-7 years ago.

Dude, I call a customer, and explain EXACTLY how I need it set up. This AFTER I have already discovered the supplied PDF was toast. He says he totally understands, after I repeatedly tell him, over and over. He sends the SAME file. I call him and ask him WTF? He whines to his boss I am being picky, and I get my ass chewed by MY BOSS. This happened yesterday. I am done educating people that don't want or think they need it. Maybe cuz your in Oregon and the weed is sweet, the Designers have a different outlook. Here, they should be grazing in a fucking field... they are cattle. No thanks Bro, I take native any day of the week.

[Ear]

Hey DCS, I know this will distract from the invigorating conversation about freehand and killing people but, in response to the original problem...

You're on a workflow now, right? Teach your clients to supply quality PDF and you won't have problems like this.

IMO, the problem isn't people using strange plugins or even strange applications (like freehand). This can all be solved by getting them to supply good PDF. I have been on a PDF workflow for 4-5 years now and trust me, focus on getting THEM to do the PDF.

Can't do it. Most of the shit I work on is NOT set up correctly in native, so PDF is trash as well. It would be like having to explain how to make cereal to a coma patient. They just don't give a shit. I do custom offset jobs, no two are the same. Originally, I don't know if you guys picked up on this... even though InDesign asked for a particular plug-in, it opened anyway. I had just never seen it, and wanted to warn the gang.

I prefer working native because it puts all the control in my hands. I don't have to worry about workarounds, or hacking, or having to jury-rig PDFs to print. I do have all the font probs, support, you know, but I am comfortable with this. I have been doing it a long time. One thing that has not changed... customers. They are as retarded as ever, but now there are more. Working native keeps your skills sharp, I can work any DTP better than probably 90% of the Designers out there, so in turn that makes me more money with freelance. When I get a PDF from me, it works every time. Go figure.

We do different jobs Ear. If I was doing yours (Web), I would do it like you, but I don't, so I do it like me (Custom Offset.)

I do understand and I do accept native and still get native from time to time.

I do web offset, that is true, I have two of the big monsters to feed but I also do custom sheetfed work on our two Heidis. We have a 2 color 19x25 and a 20x29 Speedmaster with UV coater. I do things with metallic, various spot colors, spot varnish, custom dies, etc... and yes, in those cases, I do like to have native files. However, I still have them at least try to do a PDF and include it with the packaged job, sometimes I'm pleased to find that I can use it. I find, if I take a little time, most designers actually do want to learn and love me for taking the time to teach them. There are pitfalls to opening native files over having the designer do the PDF off their own machine. My speed, productivity and accuracy have better than doubled since embracing customer PDF.

So I partially agree but I still like to press on from the old ways. Hell, the camera is in the scrap yard and we used it as little as 6-7 years ago.

Dude, I call a customer, and explain EXACTLY how I need it set up. This AFTER I have already discovered the supplied PDF was toast. He says he totally understands, after I repeatedly tell him, over and over. He sends the SAME file. I call him and ask him WTF? He whines to his boss I am being picky, and I get my ass chewed by MY BOSS. This happened yesterday. I am done educating people that don't want or think they need it. Maybe cuz your in Oregon and the weed is sweet, the Designers have a different outlook. Here, they should be grazing in a fucking field... they are cattle. No thanks Bro, I take native any day of the week.

You know, I never did take the demographic into account... You're in Oklahoma, right? Nuff said, sorry bro, carry on.  :grin:

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

NEVER forget demographics!

[Chelle]

OMG!!!! Your whiny customer story... I had one that was doing design work... And I found out later had a HISTORY DEGREE!!!!! Wow. Now here comes the best part: it got to the point where I was not allowed to talk to him anymore because apparently when I would call him and POLITELY (I have NEVER been rude to a customer or I would NOT still have my job) ask him for the fonts/graphic files he did not include or explain to him that a two color job is not a job with 4 different Pantone colors plus black and he has to fix it, he one day says to the salesman, "Wow, Chelle's tough."

Umm... What? I am NOT doing anything any OTHER print house in town wouldn't do. I was never so happy than to hear that he went off to do what he SHOULD have been doing: TEACHING HISTORY. Except that he bailed without notice and I had to finish a bunch of half-ass done projects that he left. Morong. (This is someone dumber than a moron.)

[frailer]

 

Actually, it's great when they supply both. Most often the PDF is either good to go untouched, or requires minimal tweaking. Had 2 DL flyers come in yesterday. Started loading off disk...WTF, a 450 MB. PhSh file included. Turns out it was a humungous hi-res stage shot, but they were only using singer's head, (in the finished job). PDF for it was about 6-7 MB.
Sure won't bother archiving the InDes +support files.

The other thing is, I regard a supplied PDF, (assuming it's sufficient quality to use), as a kind of "locked in" version of what they are after. Understand what you're saying DCS, and I wish I had your skill depth/history, but I don't...have to duck and weave a bit to get jobs out sometimes.

Did the above make any sense? No? Oh well, bedtime...

[beermonster]

i'm with dcs on this one - i prefer natives. sometimes, when we've worked our magic we will then pdf into indy and life is good.

crap pdf=bounce it back - and at my company thats valuable time lost, potential customer lost, print slot lost - just for a pdf? naa - native every day thankyou. i can then work the miracles i've done time and time again

pdf=yeah miracles can be done but the impossible takes a little longer....

[DigitalCrapShoveler]

 :wink: