Teaching prepress to pressroom

Started by Aaron, April 02, 2009, 02:13:05 PM

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Aaron

April 02, 2009, 02:13:05 PM
Well not teaching how to use a computer or anything because we know how that would go. :blowup:

What I'm trying to do it convey to the Plant Manager why a 50% screen shouldn't read a 50% when measuring dot area on the press sheet. Between being the bad teacher that I am and not being able to get a word in edgewise, I seem to be falling short of even giving off the impression that I know what I'm doing.

What would you say to the plant manager when you are trying to tell him that the dot gain has magically disappeared but the plates are reading the same and he says there is nothing wrong with the press.

*cough* they don't read anything out there.  No reading the fountain solution PH, conductivity or temp. If I have a dot gain problem, it can't be pressure, it must be the plate!  :banghead:
Prinergy 6.1, UpFront, Magnus Quantum 400 , Epson 9880, Insite 7.0, Sonora

"You don't frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called "Arthur King," you and all your silly English K-nig-hts." -- John Cleese, Monty Python and the Holy Grail

G_Town

#1
April 02, 2009, 02:27:23 PM
Quote from: Aaron on April 02, 2009, 02:13:05 PMWell not teaching how to use a computer or anything because we know how that would go. :blowup:

What I'm trying to do it convey to the Plant Manager why a 50% screen shouldn't read a 50% when measuring dot area on the press sheet. Between being the bad teacher that I am and not being able to get a word in edgewise, I seem to be falling short of even giving off the impression that I know what I'm doing.

What would you say to the plant manager when you are trying to tell him that the dot gain has magically disappeared but the plates are reading the same and he says there is nothing wrong with the press.

*cough* they don't read anything out there.  No reading the fountain solution PH, conductivity or temp. If I have a dot gain problem, it can't be pressure, it must be the plate!  :banghead:

Go above him if you can that's just complete ignorance.

Aaron

#2
April 02, 2009, 02:32:40 PM
Yeah I'm thinking about doing that but I want it to be the last resort. If I did, it would be the end of an era... up until now it's been prepress and pressroom running through the daisy fields together holding hands...
Prinergy 6.1, UpFront, Magnus Quantum 400 , Epson 9880, Insite 7.0, Sonora

"You don't frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called "Arthur King," you and all your silly English K-nig-hts." -- John Cleese, Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Ear

#3
April 02, 2009, 02:42:32 PM
Oh man, I hate this one. I just went round and round with this not long ago. Fortunately, I ran presses before coming to prepress, years ago.

But what really saved my ass and solidified my argument was hard, solid proof where the pressman had none other than opinion. He wasn't using anything to test his water balance or even a densitometer for the color bars. I was able to find a set of saved plates and a sample of the job along with a set of new plates and the new job... same client, basically same job with minor corrections. It printed one way months ago and printed differently on the recent run. I cleaned the plates up and used my plate reader to PROVE that nothing in the file or the prepress process changed. The dots read the same, within .5%. I was also able to show how our sheetfed speedmaster printed the cover for this book the exact same on both versions, proving it was a problem with the heatset.

The pressman had been in my prepress, trying to get me to run focus tests and calibrate diodes instead of working on his end. I obliged, and he still wouldn't accept responsibility for his equipment until I proved it was something happening after the plating process.

You can't teach these people, all you can do is come up with hard proof and cover your ass. Or, put a bunch of cans of chili in a pillowcase and pummel them as they walk in. Sucks, but that's why pressmen and managers aren't prepress techs.

BTW... he adjusted his water and changed blankets/packing, looked great after.  :rolleyes:
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

DigitalCrapShoveler

#4
April 02, 2009, 02:49:41 PM
DO NOT challenge the PM. You are going to have to appeal to his ego above anything else. Remember, this guy is your boss. The last thing you want is to challenge this guy on top of already being the seeming incompetent. You need a different approach. Get your ducks in a row and stand firm. Most Pressman I know are loud mouth know-it-alls. Become your enemy. Learn his job, and shove it back in his face.

A Prepress Guy could be running a Press on his own within a week, not too complicated...

A Pressman in Prepress... well we've seen it... the little old guy in the corner, drooling on himself and trying to out-think 'Dobe!
Member #285 - Civilian

Ear

#5
April 02, 2009, 03:03:02 PM
Yep, just like DCS said, prove yourself and your work with solid evidence and save materials to CYA and back yourself up on shit like this. I keep test plates and printed samples to reference to. Speak with confidence and have proof of your work, then there is no argument. Work arguments suck and the best way to diffuse them is with facts. You will leave the pressman with his opinion and he will look like the asshole with no factual basis for his claims.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

DigitalCrapShoveler

#6
April 02, 2009, 03:05:24 PM
EXACTLY! But, do it "nice." I mean cuss and shit, make your point known... but do it "nice."
Member #285 - Civilian

Ear

#7
April 02, 2009, 03:32:38 PM
Of course.  :angel: Just like at the bar..... doesn't matter who started it, it's the one who keeps their cool that doesn't get their turdcutter kicked in by the bouncers.

You gotta be like Fonzie, and what's Fonzie like?
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

DigitalCrapShoveler

#8
April 02, 2009, 03:34:09 PM
Me. :afro:
Member #285 - Civilian

Aaron

#9
April 02, 2009, 03:52:03 PM
Thanks for the input guys. Yeah, it's a tough situation. I have proof and he still doesn't believe me. I have a set of plates we profiled with when we installed and showed him the readings against what's coming out of the processor now. Changed only 1% since we installed this new plate line. 1% in 2 months! And that's mainly from reading my plate with fresh chem and high conductivity compared to reading it recently where it's leveled out.

He still thinks it's something that has to do with prepress. Either software or hardware. I don't think I can win this one. I tried to bring up the difference in ink colors from one lot to another and he blew up and walked out.

Luckily he is not really my boss. We aren't a large shop and I pretty much answer to the owner. But I really don't want to go over his head just yet. Like I said, last resort.

I have Kodak setting up a conference call with their color services so we can sit down and talk about the situation. I'm hoping after hearing the same things I say over and over again come out of someone else's mouth he might soften up a bit.

Cross your fingers for me! Otherwise it's going to have to be game on!  :ninja2:
Prinergy 6.1, UpFront, Magnus Quantum 400 , Epson 9880, Insite 7.0, Sonora

"You don't frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called "Arthur King," you and all your silly English K-nig-hts." -- John Cleese, Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Ear

#10
April 02, 2009, 03:59:25 PM
That is a tough one. You show proof and they still don't believe you. I once had the head pressman and the owner ganging up on me. I showed proof and got a similar reaction from the freakin owner. I had PROOF and he wouldn't believe it was anything other than something I was doing. Got a plate tech in to help resolve the situation, (he didn't believe me so he got someone in who knew my job)... the guy told him it had nothing to do with anything in prepress. Wasted money and time when it was really a press problem.

I hate it! I have fought this battle more than once. I always win. The reason, because when there is an actual prepress problem, I don't blame other departments and waste time pissing people off, I just fix the problem.

I wish they would understand that we use tools to take readings and work by the numbers. We do have errors in prepress, but we fix them, by the numbers.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

DigitalCrapShoveler

#11
April 02, 2009, 04:04:51 PM
Another thing they don't understand... not only do you have to regulate sales, CSRs, customer supplied crap, the job tickets, how it sets up in bindery, IT, maintenance, phone tech support, proofer, plate-maker AND making sure the Press PrimaDonnas are all happy, but you have to do it with a smile on your face.

Or, you could be like me and just cuss and yell a lot. People fear what they don't understand. Dazzle them with Techno-Babble! :laugh:
Member #285 - Civilian

Ear

#12
April 02, 2009, 04:09:44 PM
Techno-babble rules. Tell them that you just spent 2 hours and got the thermal-spectro-laser calibrated within a tolerance of 10nanomicrons in the hemostatic transfer-head. They glaze right over and you toss in a few actual terms to keep it real.  :grin:
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

DigitalCrapShoveler

#13
April 02, 2009, 04:20:32 PM
Quote from: Earendil on April 02, 2009, 04:09:44 PMTechno-babble rules. Tell them that you just spent 2 hours and got the thermal-spectro-laser calibrated within a tolerance of 10nanomicrons in the hemostatic transfer-head. They glaze right over and you toss in a few actual terms to keep it real.  :grin:

Oh, I see you have mastered that. Very good... very, very good sir.
Member #285 - Civilian

Ear

#14
April 02, 2009, 04:29:13 PM
Quote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on April 02, 2009, 04:20:32 PM
Quote from: Earendil on April 02, 2009, 04:09:44 PMTechno-babble rules. Tell them that you just spent 2 hours and got the thermal-spectro-laser calibrated within a tolerance of 10nanomicrons in the hemostatic transfer-head. They glaze right over and you toss in a few actual terms to keep it real.  :grin:

Oh, I see you have mastered that. Very good... very, very good sir.

Yes, well, I can bullshit my way through almost anything.  :ninja:
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black
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