Guest Speaker

Started by Ear, September 13, 2016, 05:22:45 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ear

I am doing a print job for a professor at a local University. She came to review the proof and we started discussing prepress technical stuff. She knows her stuff and was telling me about a project, where she was folding up 16pg sigs and doing things to illustrate ghosting and bleed, etc... actually teaching about the press. I was excited to hear it.

She asked me to prepare a presentation and to come be a guest speaker for a day, in the next couple of weeks. I'm not worried about material, and I can definitely go off on prepress stuff for an hour, but thought it might be good to get input from you guys, since you are my peers. I'm planning on covering the basics of the equipment and mechanics, like bleed and separations, etc...

What would you tell a college class, regarding our profession? What do we want to pass on to our successors? Think about it, I just might open this thread during my lecture.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

DigiCorn

Southern Oregon University?

Twice now, at two different shops in two different cities, I've had a junior college design class visit our shop. When relaying the daily issues of dealing with files from designers, I mostly focused on the differences between RGB and CMYK, and proper resolution. I also specified the importance of using the right tools for the right jobs - InDesign for page layout, Illustrator for logos and custom elements and Photoshop for photos ONLY. I also briefly showed how to check their work before submitting to a service bureau.
"There's been a lot of research recently on how hard it is to dislodge an impression once it's been implanted in someone's mind. (This is why political attack ads don't have to be true to be effective. The other side can point out their inaccuracies, but the voter's mind privileges the memory of the original accusation, which was juicier than any counterargument ever could be.)"
― Johnny Carson

"Selling my soul would be a lot easier if I could just find it."
– Nikki Sixx

"Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut."
― Ernest Hemingway

Joe

Quote from: Ear on September 13, 2016, 05:22:45 PMI am doing a print job for a professor at a local University. She came to review the proof and we started discussing prepress technical stuff. She knows her stuff and was telling me about a project, where she was folding up 16pg sigs and doing things to illustrate ghosting and bleed, etc... actually teaching about the press. I was excited to hear it.

She asked me to prepare a presentation and to come be a guest speaker for a day, in the next couple of weeks. I'm not worried about material, and I can definitely go off on prepress stuff for an hour, but thought it might be good to get input from you guys, since you are my peers. I'm planning on covering the basics of the equipment and mechanics, like bleed and separations, etc...

What would you tell a college class, regarding our profession? What do we want to pass on to our successors? Think about it, I just might open this thread during my lecture.


Run AWAY as fast you can from printing. Seriously. I would never, ever suggest a young person to make it their life's work.
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

Ear

... I should add that the class is Graphic Design, specifically typesetting and composition. These people probably want to be primarily web designers but need to know the print side too. There is a secondary commentary to be had on their view of print dying, just because news is moving away from print.

I know I would like to see more designers who actually care about the print end. The amount of resources and time it takes to print something that is expensive to throw away, vs to upload a design to the web and be able to fix it the next day, and the day after. With print, the devil is in the details, and one little detail can turn a whole job into recycle.

Anyway, I don't think these are immediate prepress prospects, I just want them to know what happens when they hand it off and why they should care.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

Ear

Quote from: Joe on September 13, 2016, 05:33:50 PMRun AWAY as fast you can from printing. Seriously. I would never, ever suggest a young person to make it their life's work.
You could've just said "first". I knew this reply was coming. :rotf:  Hell, I was even thinking it.

The reality is, they won't listen to us about what not to do with their lives, but maybe they'll pick up some tips on how to make it easier. Let them know what the grumpy prepress guy on the other side of the FTP is up against.

Think about it this way: We are mostly the last printers to have handled film, hot type, analog prepress. If we don't pass it on, it will be lost. I like what I do, I just don't always like who I do it for... I guess we're like sechs workers.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

Ear

Yes, Corn, SOU. I'm lucky that the teacher is already covering a lot of the stuff you mentioned. She has past print production and marketing experience. But I will certainly touch on those points. Keep 'em coming.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

delooch

My .02:

Tell them to NEVER EVER NEVER EVER send a fucking logo in a MS word document. 

But really though:

-what is bleed, and how can it help you
-6 pt. reverse type: not your friend...
-enforce the "looks good on my screen" doesnt translate to "looks good on paper"

Joe

Quote from: Ear on September 13, 2016, 05:39:58 PM
Quote from: Joe on September 13, 2016, 05:33:50 PMRun AWAY as fast you can from printing. Seriously. I would never, ever suggest a young person to make it their life's work.
You could've just said "first". I knew this reply was coming. :rotf:  Hell, I was even thinking it.

The reality is, they won't listen to us about what not to do with their lives, but maybe they'll pick up some tips on how to make it easier. Let them know what the grumpy prepress guy on the other side of the FTP is up against.

Think about it this way: We are mostly the last printers to have handled film, hot type, analog prepress. If we don't pass it on, it will be lost. I like what I do, I just don't always like who I do it for... I guess we're like sechs workers.

Yeah I know and it is sad to see others waste their working life in a dead end career. :'(

In addition to some of the things already mentioned...explain PDF page boxes and why it is important to create documents at the trim size and then add bleed extending past the document edge (trim). I have far too many people sending everything at 8.5" x  11" no matter what the final size is supposed to be. Or they create the document at bleed size which, while it will work, it is still wrong! And then you have dumbasses creating it at the right size but placing text right at the trim. You can't even reduce them to move the type away from trim without losing all of your bleed if you were lucky enough to get it.

And explain we aren't complaining about their files to screw with them. We're actually trying to make the job right.

And also the time to go on vacation is not 30 seconds after they upload their files!
Mac OS Sonoma 14.2.1 (c) | (retired)

The seven ages of man: spills, drills, thrills, bills, ills, pills and wills.

frailer

... make sure fonts are embedded in your PDF docs. Don't subset them, please.

Export as single pages, not Spreads.

... oh, NEVER printers' spreads. Readers' spreads sometimes, but ...
Forgotten good guys: Dennis Ritchie, Burrell Smith, Bill Atkinson, Richard Stallman
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now just an honorary member.

Diddler

Quote from: Ear on September 13, 2016, 05:34:00 PM... I should add that the class is Graphic Design, specifically typesetting and composition. 
Being and Old Typesetter myself, my 2c worth would be Picas & Points. Every designer i ask these days has no idea on how many points in a pica. 
But long gone are the days of character counting, column widths and leading involved with a design job.  :old:

On a modern note it would deal with Additive & Subtractive colour theories and Ink Densities. 
You can't polish a Turd, but you can roll it in glitter!

Farabomb

Find the hipsters in the class and use targeted words like "artisan", "free range", "organic", ect. to describe printing. Maybe they will latch on, create a huge market for artisan free-range printing. We all become gurus, command top dollar for our experience and then we can all move out of the trailer park.
Speed doesn't kill, rapidly becoming stationary is the problem

I'd rather have stories told than be telling stories of what I could have done.

Quote from: Ear on April 06, 2016, 11:54:16 AM
Quote from: Farabomb on April 06, 2016, 11:39:41 AMIt's more like grip, grip, grip, noise, then spin and 2 feet in and feel shame.
I once knew a plus-sized girl and this pretty much describes teh secks. :rotf:
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
         —Benjamin Franklin

My other job

Possum

If they're going to stay in the business, they need to know that print may have changed, but it's not dead. When they are asked to design a logo or branding for a business, they need to know how to create vector files, not just some gif for the web, and to provide vectors to the business for future use.

I can't tell you how many times we've been given a low rez gif for a print job, and "that's all they had." Sure, because all they asked for from the designer was a logo for their website and the designer didn't think two minutes ahead.
Tall tree, short ropes, fix stupid.

Tracy

#12
Ooooh! You get to teach designers!!!!
Definitely tell them about the problems from not knowing prepress!

Fonts, Size, Bleed, Ink Density, RGB to CMYK may change colors.
Photoshop text, Resolution, transparencies, Spot Colors, Blacks, Text to close to the edge
sheesh I could go on and on :laugh:

Good pdfs, Send packaged Natives if/when needed

Plus all kinds of press related stuff too!

born2print

Bindery samples, press sheets, show how sigs really work
I like the other suggestions too:
facing singles NOT spreads
Proper software
resolution / ppi / machine pixels / linescreen
bleed
font mgmt
communication with production before / during project
CMYK vs RGB (and the gamut size being about half) + spot colors
I like to throw in how IRL is billions of colors, monitors are millions, CMYK repro is only 100's of thousands. It's an illusion.

Plus I like to talk about historic methods (letterpress, litho, fils, etc...)

How will I laugh tomorrow...
when I can't even smile today?

Ear

I like, I like... Once I refine all of this info, I will post my outline and get opinions. I really want them to know this is from a prepress community, not just one prepress guy. I really appreciate the input. Hopefully DCS pops in too.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black