Apogee opinions

DigitalCrapShoveler · October 16, 2009, 08:29:54 AM

Hey 30, do you run PrintDrive with AX?

30YearsandCounting · October 16, 2009, 08:43:14 AM

Yup we do. I know they've gotten rid of it in version 6 though. It's replaced by "PlateMaker". Still have to do some homework on that one though.

DigitalCrapShoveler · October 16, 2009, 09:20:47 AM

My problems with AX are in accordance with PrintDrive. I was wondering if you had any issues. I for one, will be glad PrintDrive is gone.

30YearsandCounting · October 16, 2009, 09:54:06 AM

We have no issues with PrintDrive at all. It's been rock solid for us. We use it to send tiffs out to BlackMagic and to drive SherpaProof and CTP direct. BlackMagic drives all the lo-res proofers.

DigitalCrapShoveler · October 16, 2009, 10:02:01 AM

We run a satellite proofer station with a dedicated PC. PrintDrive has been problematic for us, especially after going from Series 3 to AX. I had a feeling it was incompetence, but wanted to run it by you first to confirm.

Do you ever have issues, where template data does not overwrite when changes are made? I have to delete template data almost every time I re-render templates. It has bit me in the ass on more than one occasion.

30YearsandCounting · October 16, 2009, 10:35:39 AM

Sorry, haven't seen that at all.

DigitalCrapShoveler · October 16, 2009, 10:50:52 AM

I figured. :angry:

DCurry · October 16, 2009, 10:50:58 AM

Quote from: 30YearsandCounting on October 16, 2009, 08:25:02 AMWe have a full Apogee workflow (except for the WebPortal) and are very happy with it. Currently on version 5 - plan on upgrading to 6 in the next few months. Don't find it too buggy at all. Do find it very fast and ...it just works. Agfa support is excellent. I do agree with DCS on the service for the plotters. Agfa dumped the hardware support on inkjet plotters a couple of years ago and I have told them many times that we will never buy another proofing system from them unless that changes. They have no problem selling you a proofer... they just don't want to support it. That doesn't fly with me.

That's reassuring to hear that your overall experience has been positive. We're not getting a proofer thru them - just using our existing setup for that so Apogee will feed it TIFFs.

DigitalCrapShoveler · October 16, 2009, 11:39:57 AM

Dan, don't misread me, I dig Apogee X. I have very few problems and it is stable minus a few glitches I think may be Administrator (My Manager) related. I do feel that AFAG is going down, they have had a shitload of layoffs recently and over the past couple years. Kodak is killing them. I am more for Prinergy for longevity even though I have never used it.

30YearsandCounting · October 16, 2009, 12:57:48 PM

I have to disagree with you DCS. You may have seen that Kodak just did a major re-financing in the last month with KKR. To get the money they needed they are paying 10 to 12% interest on the loan plus giving away up to 30% of the company. The shares are trading at 1/2 what they were a year ago and the company market cap is 1.16 billion right now. Hell... they paid that much for just Creo if I remember correctly. Basically they are burning up a ton of money every quarter and they were expected to run out of cash by the middle of 2010 if they didn't get the new $700 million in new financing. You are right that they are winning some deals because they are undercutting both Agfa and Fuji right now BIG time. They have to... even if they don't make money on the deal it keeps the cas flow coming and that's what they need.

Joe · October 16, 2009, 01:07:11 PM

Quote from: 30YearsandCounting on October 16, 2009, 12:57:48 PMI have to disagree with you DCS. You may have seen that Kodak just did a major re-financing in the last month with KKR. To get the money they needed they are paying 10 to 12% interest on the loan plus giving away up to 30% of the company. The shares are trading at 1/2 what they were a year ago and the company market cap is 1.16 billion right now. Hell... they paid that much for just Creo if I remember correctly. Basically they are burning up a ton of money every quarter and they were expected to run out of cash by the middle of 2010 if they didn't get the new $700 million in new financing. You are right that they are winning some deals because they are undercutting both Agfa and Fuji right now BIG time. They have to... even if they don't make money on the deal it keeps the cas flow coming and that's what they need.

Kohlberg Kravis & Roberts? That's like dealing with the devil. :evil:

30YearsandCounting · October 16, 2009, 01:18:51 PM

Geee... they put out a press release saying how they thought it was a great deal (for them). Don't get me wrong, Prinergy is a great product. But of all the big boys... Kokak is the one with the biggest money problems.

DigitalCrapShoveler · October 16, 2009, 02:02:05 PM

Don't look at it from a numbers POV. Look at what's going on around you. My city alone has lost 4 major printers to Kodak. If Kodak keeps up, they will indeed be back on top and all their money problems non-existent. I see AGFA reps and techs that have been there for years being canned and their customer service just blows. They ceased making film, camera and imagesetter, sold off their service on Plotters... writing on the wall as I see it.

30YearsandCounting · October 16, 2009, 02:30:59 PM

Different part of the country obviously. In this market ALL of the medium to large printers are with Agfa or Fuji (for plates), except for one. And that one is because it's a corporate decision made at head office. I know of one major printer who went out on tender to all three. Agfa and Fuji were relatively close and Kodak was about 25% less. So much lower that the printer decided to stay with their present supplier rather than switch. The reason? They looked at it from a numbers POV and couldn't believe the difference. They knew that Kodak was not making money at the prices they were quoting and they were concerned about having a major supplier that would be unable to support them... and maybe not be around. Kodak has been trying to buy market share because they desperately needed the cash. You can't do that forever... it will catch up to you.

BTW... Kodak doesn't make film or imagesetters anymore either. (...but why would anyone???)
Maybe the writing is on the wall.

DigitalCrapShoveler · October 16, 2009, 08:43:47 PM

It has to be demographics. AGFA is losing in a big way here, but there it sounds thriving. What I don't understand, is IF AGFA is thriving in your region, why all the layoffs? Wouldn't it be more feasibly sound to keep your techs, people you have sunk money into in training and offer to relocate?

AGFA has been on top for much longer than any of the previous heavies, IMO I think their time is up. I have no problem admitting this is more of a feeling with feeble facts backing the claim, than an actual methodical prognosis based more on numbers.

Another thing, Kodak is actually paying off service contracts for existing AGFA customers IF they make the switch. Now, my company had been approached and they were VERY interested. AGFA had been lax on several promises made and not followed through on. When Kodak came in, it was ALMOST the right time. As soon as AGFA found out, they did everything they had promised within a week. THAT is the only thing that saved them. Let's just say things have gotten a whole lot better with AGFA since Kodak started knocking at the door.

Does that sound like a thriving company not worried about losing a potential customer in a part of the country where Kodak is taking over? Not to me.

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Apogee opinions