Kodak Sonora XP plates for offset..anyone?

[RMPrepress]

Anyone here using Kodak's process free plate, the Sonora XP or the Sonora XTRA?
Are they really rinsing or washing off during makeready in 5-10 sheets?
Are they contaminating the water?

[born2print]

We've been on the Fuji version for a few years and they're fine.
The plates are "developed" by the fountain solution and there's no contamination issue.
My only complaints:
The first gen = you could barely see the image so quality checks were nearly impossible
(the latest gen you can see pretty well, enough to check some stuff)

No honing-off. They'll tell you that you can and give you a rock to scrape image off the plate...
but don't kid yourself, it is NOT like a deletion pen.
So versioning like with / without indicia has to be handled differently and flaws = remake now.

[RMPrepress]

Back in 2017 - 2018 we had the Kodak Sonora XP and it was a struggle getting the makeready sheets to cleanup within the first 10 sheets as Kodak would tout as the norm. Also we were getting contamination problems in fountain solution.
We ended up in a bit of a back and forth with Kodak and the pressroom manager gave their plates the boot.

I here ya on both your complaints, we hated that we could hardly see the image or text etc. and could not delete anything off the plate without the whole area getting contaminated.

We are revisiting bringing them back in since the technology has improved.
They have a new plate now too called the Sonora XTRA.

[DigiCorn]

If it's anything like the Kodak plates I was forced to switch to from Agfa circa 2006, no contamination issue, but yes, fountain solution on press wipes image off the plate almost instantly. Also, and I know I've blasted Kodak many times here in the past about it, but you could run a plate with a 40% screen and using a CCDot read 45%. Rerun the plate and using the CCDot read 30%. Rerun the same plate a third time in a row and read 37%. Yup. Not sure how that's possible, but same 1-bit tiff RIPped file and the CCDot was at full charge. I could do that with Agfa and hit the same screen every time.

[SpicyVindaloo]

We test ran a couple skids of the SonoraX at the end of 2019 and they performed well on our web and SF presses. We would have switched to them but we were getting a new press in a few months and then the pandemic happened.
I got pricing for the XTRA at few months ago when I heard Fuji was being sued. I figured it wouldn't be long before their plate prices went up. And boy did they! 

[Tracy]

what did fuji get sued for?

[SpicyVindaloo]

https://www.printweek.com/content/news/us-authorities-could-slap-duties-on-100m-of-plate-imports/

[Tracy]

Huh! I think I agree with that

[DigiCorn]

I'd agree with it IF Kodak could produce consistent, quality plates, and not the garbage they've been pushing.

[Joe]

Duties on imports may make Kodak more competitive but I'll give you one guess who is going to actually be paying those duties. And it isn't the foreign company. Maybe Kodak would be a bit more competitive if they would relax their price gouging tendency and price it to their competitors prices.

[born2print]

Maybe Kodak's practices are Scitex legacy? NObody gouged like Scitex.

[RMPrepress]

I just recently found out that Kodak supplies Heidelberg with all their plates.
At least in America anyway.
So I am sure Heidelberg is passing along even more cost to its plate customers after buying from Kodak to just make some profit.  Heidelberg is brutal with their upcharges on everything and anything they can slap their name onto.

I get frequent emails like this from Jim Continenza CEO at Kodak about the Fuji plate situation...

https://www2.kodak.com/webmail/54782/924202701/e6901ef95a12e2a2aa00860b950e170e

[DigiCorn]

America would be such a better place if it wasn't so easy to sue someone/companies. We need a complete upheaval of the law system that holds people/companies accountable without all the lawsuits. It's like you can't get a 25 cent pack of gum (5 sticks) anymore because they need to sell you a pack of 20 sticks so that the package is big enough to put a warning label on it. If you're stupid enough to choke on a piece of gum, you shouldn't be allowed to sue the manufacturer because they didn't warn you first.

But also, we're deficit spending and ordered to reduce costs, and then place tariffs on imports that raise the costs of everything. And it's the consumer who pays the bill while some CEO is getting richer and richer. Hold CEOs accountable! My wife works for the UC system, and they are dangerously understaffed and can't handle the increasing patient load, but they don't have the $$$ to add more staff... but the CEO of the hospital makes $8 million a year. That's what's bullshit in this country.

[Joe]

Maybe Kodak's practices are Scitex legacy? NObody gouged like Scitex.

I'll raise you Linotype-Hell Chromacom system.

[DigiCorn]

I just recently found out that Kodak supplies Heidelberg with all their plates.
At least in America anyway.
So I am sure Heidelberg is passing along even more cost to its plate customers after buying from Kodak to just make some profit.  Heidelberg is brutal with their upcharges on everything and anything they can slap their name onto.

I get frequent emails like this from Jim Continenza CEO at Kodak about the Fuji plate situation...

https://www2.kodak.com/webmail/54782/924202701/e6901ef95a12e2a2aa00860b950e170e

Really? Because I could have sworn (at least pre-2008)  that when I was in a Heidelberg shop, our "Heidelberg" plates were supplied by Agfa. And at Sig-1, where we were an Agfa shop, I could have sworn the Agfa plates were supplied by Fuji.