So this is week two of our XMF install/trainiing and while I am not going to badmouth XMF it has not gone well for us.
I can see it can be a great workflow for shops that mainly do sheetfed work and truthfully it kicks ass as a workflow for most things...except multi web imposition. Web yes. Multiweb no. There are just some impositions that it cannot do and Fuji has acknowledged that. APA (auto page assignment) is a big part of our Prinergy workflow and while XMF has a page mapping function it is no where near as powerful as Prinergy's. That means we will have to work harder to do the same amount of work. Not exactly a leap forward.
XMF Remote as a replacement for Kodak Insite Prepress Portal? It has potential but it isn't there yet.
So we mutually cutoff the training a couple of days early because as it stands now we are not going to be able to use XMF. They are going back to their developers in Tokyo and seeing if they can fix the issues that will not work for our needs and see what, if anything, can be done so basically we are still using Prinergy and have XMF on hold until they get back to us. On the plus side the people from XMF were great. And I believe they truly do want us to be able to use XMF. Much better to deal with than the droids at Kodak (specifically not talking about Kodak support techs that are great but the Kodak management hierarchy).
Hmmm, I harboured a latent fear that this, or something similar, may be the case. Having said that, I'd be inclined to take a Monty Python/glass-half-full approach to it. I think that within a few months they could knock up the necessary code for your multi-web needs. Ok, a hunch, but based on their openness towards our smaller requests, which have been rolled into it.
From their point of view, surely, they can pick your brains as to what's needed. This then opens up a wider market for them. I hope so, anyway. Prinergy has the maturity of development over it, but XMF's a much more functional system now than it was on first launch, which is nit all that long ago, really.
Paulyanna speaks...
I was wondering how it was working out for you. I applaud your management for making the right decision. Some places would say this is what it is, you make it work.
I agree with the statement about the kodak service reps. I have never had an issue with them and they have always done the best they can.
It's good to hear that Fuji is really trying to make it work for you. It's in their best interest to do so. Yes you will be be beta testing but in the end you should be able to get a pretty much custom setup and they get the testing time for the next multi web place they have an install at.
Joe,
sounds like your XMF training is going very similar to my Prinergy training... nonexistent to not knowing what we need it to do.
par for the course
You got prinergy training? I got the basics from the installer guy that has never even seen a offset press.
Quote from: david on November 21, 2013, 09:08:33 AMJoe,
sounds like your XMF training is going very similar to my Prinergy training... nonexistent to not knowing what we need it to do.
par for the course
That is something that always amazes me when doing this kind of training. The trainers they send in always spend a great deal of time calling people to ask questions. Why don't they send the guy that they are calling in the first place? :laugh:
FB, our owners are adamant that they want us to pull the plug if it seems XMF is going to create more work or leave more room for errors even though sticking with Prinergy will cost them big bucks in the long run. They are reluctantly giving XMF a short window of opportunity to fix the things that are an issue for us. But they've made it clear we're not waiting for a long time or "beta testing" on our live work. A lot of promises were made that it would do everything that Prinergy would do and do it better. And right now it doesn't especially in the imposition end of things and in their XMF Remote (Online soft proofing). It seems XMF Remote was built to be used by people that know printing and prepress. They actually have added too many bells and whistles on the customer side of things. They need a dumbed down customer front end. Using what they have presently will mean we will be on the phone constantly babysitting idiots.
QuoteUsing what they have presently will mean we will be on the phone constantly babysitting idiots.
eh, isn't that what you do now? :lmao:
Right now it is just Java issues. With XMF Remote it will be Java issues and what are all these settings for. And 10 times out of 10 they will select the wrong ones. :death: And they will do it again the following times.
Joe, you sound like you work in a somewhat decent shop. You hiring Prepress guys?
Though it is really, really flat out there. I may loose my mind. Are there any mental hospitals near there. Not for me (yet) the GF needs a job too.
Quote from: Farabomb on November 21, 2013, 12:19:38 PMJoe, you sound like you work in a somewhat decent shop. You hiring Prepress guys?
Though it is really, really flat out there. I may loose my mind. Are there any mental hospitals near there. Not for me (yet) the GF needs a job too.
It is actually pretty decent here. Our prepress area was built new in 2005 and it is quite roomy. There is room for roller skating if I wanted to.
It has been a long time since we have hired a prepress person. Some have left and we don't replace anyone anymore. We just keep doing more with less.
The owners are out the rest of the week for a religious holiday (bow season for deer opens today). Schools are closed as well. Cue Elmer Fudd...
I have a vague recollection of saying something like "not sure about its multi-web capabilities". I hope i did. :undecided: Shame about the way it's gone right now. Just to clarify... the shortfall in the impo is on the multi-web stuff only, correct?
Quote from: Joe on November 21, 2013, 12:39:26 PMThe owners are out the rest of the week for a religious holiday (bow season for deer opens today). Schools are closed as well. Cue Elmer Fudd...
Yeah? I was on my way there, but I took a wrong turn at Albuquerque.
Quote from: frailer on November 21, 2013, 01:10:01 PMI have a vague recollection of saying something like "not sure about its multi-web capabilities". I hope i did. :undecided: Shame about the way it's gone right now. Just to clarify... the shortfall in the impo is on the multi-web stuff only, correct?
To be clear, most multi web impositions work. The only problem is when you try to mix a 3/4 web with a full or half web. It seems the 3 pages across of the 3/4 web confuses it when it is mixed with the full (4 across) or half (2 across) webs. I emailed Earendil and it doesn't work for him either but he has never had the need to try it before he tested it for me. Tokyo is working on it.
One other thing they need to fix, since almost all of our customers upload their pages via the web portal (Kodak Insite/XMF Remote), is the fact once the files are uploaded into the XMF job via XMF Remote there is no way to easily change the color. For example a phone book might have black only sections, spot/black sections, and CMYK sections. In Prinergy we can just run a 2nd refine on the pages that need to be black only to convert to grayscale and a 2nd refine on the CMYK pages to convert spots to process while leaving the black + spot pages as they are. It is very easy in Prinergy. Not so much in XMF. Or not in a way that I've seen yet. Anyone knows an easy way...fill me in on it.
did they show you where the easy button is?
it's right next to the large gun, on the right
Understood on that, Joe. Web is a mystery to me, as I've only ever done sheet. At my age it will remain a mystery.
OK, low on your priority list right now, I guess, but how did you like the 'feel' of the imposition?
Quote from: DigiCorn on November 21, 2013, 01:32:00 PMYeah? I was on my way there, but I took a wrong turn at Albuquerque.
So that wasn't you who got hit by the commuter train in Bernalillo? I said 3:10, boy! :angry:
The train got to the Santa Fe depot and someone noticed "human remains" on the train. I wish the papers would go into more detail.
Quote from: gnubler on November 21, 2013, 03:27:22 PMQuote from: DigiCorn on November 21, 2013, 01:32:00 PMYeah? I was on my way there, but I took a wrong turn at Albuquerque.
So that wasn't you who got hit by the commuter train in Bernalillo? I said 3:10, boy! :angry:
The train got to the Santa Fe depot and someone noticed "human remains" on the train. I wish the papers would go into more detail.
Reminds me of old Benny Hill bit:
Blonde actress: "What's that in the road, a head?!"
Benny: "No no no! it's what's that in the road ahead?"
Quote from: frailer on November 21, 2013, 03:09:43 PMUnderstood on that, Joe. Web is a mystery to me, as I've only ever done sheet. At my age it will remain a mystery.
OK, low on your priority list right now, I guess, but how did you like the 'feel' of the imposition?
It looks almost exactly like Preps 6 soooooo....I'm almost right at home. :laugh:
Quote from: Joe on November 21, 2013, 03:46:56 PMQuote from: frailer on November 21, 2013, 03:09:43 PMUnderstood on that, Joe. Web is a mystery to me, as I've only ever done sheet. At my age it will remain a mystery.
OK, low on your priority list right now, I guess, but how did you like the 'feel' of the imposition?
It looks almost exactly like Preps 6 soooooo....I'm almost right at home. :laugh:
:cheesy:
Well they both have square boxes with numbers in them. :tongue:
What does the "MF" in XMF stand for anyway?
:laugh:
I have another meeting today, don't think it's the final meeting, haven't talked to any technical people yet.
Not at all sure what to ask, did you guys update to pitstop 12 for xmf?
We're at Pitstop 12 but it wasn't required for XMF. Heck you don't even have to have Pitstop with XMF other than it is how you create custom preflight profiles. Version 11 will work fine though.
How do you currently impose? Preps? Manually in InDesign? Or what?
Preps 4
Yeesh!
Imposition is going to be much different for you. :laugh:
But better!
Find out how many renderers you are getting. I recommend two because if you only have one everything will come to a standstill when you are outputting plate files.
Tracy at work:
(http://www.screenused.com/images/flintstones/flintstone_1.jpg)
:laugh:
Thanks for the heads up about the renderers!
I think I'm getting a new proofer and possibly a new processor too
seriously Preps 4 involves a lot of math, kinda like stripping
So does Preps 5 but I'm used to it.
I'm just happy I can make plates now.
sweet, you got an imagesetter running?
Yup, it took the tech over a year and 2 trips out to your coast to finally get me where I can do the low level formatting that was needed to get it to work again.
Quote from: Joe on December 13, 2013, 12:19:47 PMYeesh!
Imposition is going to be much different for you. :laugh:
But better!
Find out how many renderers you are getting. I recommend two because if you only have one everything will come to a standstill when you are outputting plate files.
Not aware of 'number of renderers' Joe. :undecided: Unless they bundle things differently here. AFAIK we have always been able to set up jobs/impose while plates are outputting. Where's biggsie when you need him?
Tracy, I gather yours is a small shop. If you will need from time to time to have 2 or more ops doing stuff, make sure you have Client Licenses to match. There would be nothing worse than having to wait for someone to quit XMF Client before you could use it on yours. I hope they covered that with you, (because I forgot to). Then again, the whole marketing /bundling thing may be different there.
It's just me here, I have had coworkers on occasion but rare
The guy said you can get more than one rip, he is going to check on the renderer for me
He also said the new rips might multitask,
So glad Joe told me to ask about that.
I am getting an Epson 9900, a New loaner processor
Rastor blaster, and hoping to get the G7 calibration
but my boss is trying to not get that :cry:
Just get G7 compliant. That's free. G7 certified costs lots of $$$
Quote from: frailer on December 13, 2013, 03:00:59 PMQuote from: Joe on December 13, 2013, 12:19:47 PMYeesh!
Imposition is going to be much different for you. :laugh:
But better!
Find out how many renderers you are getting. I recommend two because if you only have one everything will come to a standstill when you are outputting plate files.
Not aware of 'number of renderers' Joe. :undecided: Unless they bundle things differently here. AFAIK we have always been able to set up jobs/impose while plates are outputting. Where's biggsie when you need him?
Tracy, I gather yours is a small shop. If you will need from time to time to have 2 or more ops doing stuff, make sure you have Client Licenses to match. There would be nothing worse than having to wait for someone to quit XMF Client before you could use it on yours. I hope they covered that with you, (because I forgot to). Then again, the whole marketing /bundling thing may be different there.
It sounds like you have more than one renderer then (not a separate server). Multi-core CPUs can have multiple renderers running together. If you only have one renderer you can only do one thing at a time.
XMF comes standard with unlimited clients for both workflow and remote (including imposition). At least it does here.
Yes, Tracy and anyone else contemplating the XMF move would need to ask those questions. And sounds like they have moved away from that 'Client/seats' silliness; over your way, anyway. One less thing to think about.
And Tracy, getting a bit previous here, but if you do any book work which involves multiple saddle stitches stacked up to make a book, XMF has 'Assembly Sections'. You just create a giant saddle stitch impo, then split into 'Assembly Sections' (individual saddle wraps). It auto-flows the pages. It's a fantastic feature; but I'm getting previous.. :laugh:
I think quite a few things will be a lot easier once I get to know it
especially changing sheet sizes at the last minute
:cool:
Sheet size, page size, offsets... easy peasy.
Quote from: Tracy on December 16, 2013, 11:07:02 AMespecially changing sheet sizes at the last minute
Why would you have to do that? I've never worked in a shop that did that.
at least our work orders are wrong a lot :laugh:
Quote from: gnubler on December 16, 2013, 01:39:16 PMQuote from: Tracy on December 16, 2013, 11:07:02 AMespecially changing sheet sizes at the last minute
Why would you have to do that? I've never worked in a shop that did that.
Really? I've been burned a few times because the Ops Mgr will "find something" to run a job on that's different than the ticket & it doesn't get changed on the jacket, yet we're supposed to somehow magically know. Meh, plates are cheap these days, right? :banghead:
Quote from: Tracy on December 16, 2013, 02:14:59 PMat least our work orders are wrong a lot :laugh:
You, too ????
oh yeah, and I feel like I have to catch all the mistakes and not send a bad work order down the line
anyone switch from kodak to Fuji Plates?
problems?
Quote from: Tracy on January 21, 2014, 03:38:31 PManyone switch from kodak to Fuji Plates?
problems?
Never used Kodak. Been on Fuji for many moons.
What typr you planning to switch to? Thermal, violet?
We did. Love the Fuji plates. No problems to speak of.
We went from the sword to the LH-PJ because Kodak changed the emulsion without telling anyone. Took a month for Kodak to admit it and they never got it to work.
Now since a friend's shop tested the Kodak Sonora XP we might be moving to those. I still don't trust Kodak at all but since it's cheaper I guess we'll give it a try until they screw us again.
Fuji LH-PJ-an old Kodak rep told me the Fuji plate is a better plate.
I will have 1 new plate size, I'm hoping they are going to teach me how to create plate sizes etc..
Processor installing today.
Quote from: Farabomb on January 22, 2014, 08:29:28 AMWe went from the sword to the LH-PJ because Kodak changed the emulsion without telling anyone. Took a month for Kodak to admit it and they never got it to work.
Now since a friend's shop tested the Kodak Sonora XP we might be moving to those. I still don't trust Kodak at all but since it's cheaper I guess we'll give it a try until they screw us again.
Shouldn't take long. :sarcasm:
I figure maybe a month before they raise the price/change the plate.
I was told heidelberg is beating everyone on price for everything but like my boss I have a feeling they are just doing that so they can raise the price later. I don't see the people that charge $300 for a button being cheap for any amount of time.
I drove past those fuckers when we went through Rochester. I wanted to throw an egg at the place.
:laugh:
Quote from: Tracy on January 22, 2014, 10:26:23 AMFuji LH-PJ-an old Kodak rep told me the Fuji plate is a better plate.
I will have 1 new plate size, I'm hoping they are going to teach me how to create plate sizes etc..
Processor installing today.
The excitement builds. :cool: Setting up plate sizes is Jamie Oliver>easy-peasy. Hmmm.. at the XMF end.. You talking about at 'setter end?
They should set it up, then pretty much a set-and-forget. Especially with one plate size. :undecided:
3 plate sizes one was new
made my first fuji's all is good :banana:
install on monday
They should set you up with tickets/templates for each plate size. Am not too au fait with choosing plate sizes, as we've been one-size-komori forever. A bit dumbed-down on that one.
Fraaaaileer! :laugh:
Do you use the Work and Turn or do you just do a flatwork?
I use both. Work and Turns take a little more time to build initially, but once you add them to your library, you're good to go.
FYI, we have three plate sizes also....
For one-off W&T sheets... like li'l stepped-out DL flyers 6 up W&T complete, I'll mostly use Flatwork for the ease and simplicity. You can still save a Striipping Sheet Template (hereafter referred to as SSTs for simplicity) for such jobs as Flatwork. You know they're Flatwork. XMF doesn't, and doesn't need to. But be flexible; sometines you may need to set it up as W&T.
Where you DO need to use Flatwork W&T is in a Saddle Stitch job. You have no choice. That Sheet won't do its thing in the SS Job... binding, creep, stuff like that. Shall be at work soon. I'll throw up some screen shots.
Dave's right, once they're there, good to go, and quickly, though. (Sheet window ---> 'Replace'... bingo). That would be true no matter how you constructed the SST in the 1st place. In my situation, I'd be accessing a SST called, say, 'DL_6-up Compl_W&T_6DC' (The 6DC refers to the double-cuts). That would most likely be constructed, by me anyway, as Flatwork. But you could construct it as a W&T, and still get the same result.
Dave's mention of different plate sizes prompts me to add; though we've got only 1 plate size, we get a lot of one-off oddly imposed jobs. I find it easier to Flatwork em without accessing SSTs. In XMF it's crazy-quick, once you're into the sometimes-not-too-intuitive UI.
Keep the questions at us, there's a bunch of us ready. :laugh:
Hey thanks guys! Starting to get it.
I will have lots of questions once the guy leaves :laugh:
We hit a snag tho, raster blaster will not hook up to our Trendsetter
they are scrambling trying to figure it out
Frailer where you say
Where you DO need to use Flatwork is in a Saddle Stitch job. You have no choice. That Sheet won't do its thing in the SS Job... binding, creep, stuff like that.
I use W&T for Saddle Stitch jobs and have never had a problem. Maybe it't too early on Friday morning and I've missed your point? :shrug:
Tracy - who is your installer ... ???
Hot XMF tip from Friday morning here. :tonofbricks: Once you're getting familiar with things, and you start using Custom Marks... in our case solid bars across the back edge, mainly... get into the habit of always anchoring your Custom Marks to, say, a corner of the impo. That way, if they call a change in Grip, which they did in this case, from 53 to 60mm; your colour bars (or whatever Marks), don't fall into the job unnoticed. I am just going through all SSTs now and anchoring rogue Custom Marks.
The last time this caught me out was in DynaStrip. Seems to be my preferred fuckup. :embarrassed: Well, may not have been me, but buck stops.... :undecided:
Black Friday in prepress here. O' course the corollary of that is, nobody saw it once we'd done it (and missed it), in here. Well, until he'd printed the inside of the cover in question. Stock ---> bin. ouch. Hide.
P.S. Discussion with thems-outside prepress... 'It's just a matter of checking those Trim lines on the proofs before they come out of here'. Note italics. I.e.... if you guys don't see it, nobody else will. What can I say. Anyone heard a similar line before?
A 'we shoulda seen it too' would be nice. Not happening.
good point about the color bar and marks
I think mine our a distance from the sheet right now (color bar)!
Apologies Tracy. See red type correction a few posts up. I tell myself I shouldn't post 10 minutes after waking up, but I do persist. :rolleyes:
Thanks Frailer, It's starting to come together
I think I got the W/T down
Did a pretty big Ganged job, no problem.
The new proofer did a big 40" proof in 5 minutes as opposed to 25
Just from TV...... :laugh:
Do you use step and repeat or do you use the copy function?
also have you ever used the n-up?
thanks :laugh:
Quote from: Tracy on February 03, 2014, 02:12:03 PMDo you use step and repeat or do you use the copy function?
also have you ever used the n-up?
thanks :laugh:
Not quite sure what you're doing with step-n-repeat, but I just use Flatwork>Sig window> "new"... select number of vert/horizontal pages, rotate as needed, number.. done.
I don't think I've (need to) use(d) n-up. :undecided:
Screenshots show a W&T bus card setup. But I use Flatwork to keep it simple. The Imposition Pattern on the right I've just pulled up as though I'm about to change it, hence half heads facing down. Using that window I can come in anytime and change the current one; add pages, orientation...
Thanks Frailer!
:laugh: Going thru all the jobs I did and the step and repeat one didn't make sense
with a few options I still don't know the one I will be using yet.
I can get the jobs out, but I have to think a lot
not on autopilot anymore!
Is There a way to view the Front and the back sheet together?
I thought I saw that in the webinar
Slide the density slider and it will allow the other side to show through.
Thanks!
Quote from: Joe on February 05, 2014, 02:12:44 PMSlide the density slider and it will allow the other side to show through.
Man, you
have been toolin' :laugh: Got in before I woke up. :cheesy:
Today is my first day alone, yesterday was a bit of a freakout, problems with the imagesetter.
My first call to fuji went well tho.
To fix white overprints do you use this? (screen shot)
or do you fix with a pitstop action
any overprint white problems?
We have 'Force Knockout of CMYK White Objects' checked as default. It's very rare you would want to uncheck it. You can pretty much kiss the disappearing KO-but-OP'd white logos and stuff goodbye.
If you watch the progress log, you'll see it spend a little time doing just that; trawling the job looking to find/fix any. :cool:
Thanks Frailer, Trainer was leary of it but I will keep an eye out for any problems
how would you set that globally?
Quote from: Tracy on February 06, 2014, 01:24:47 PMThanks Frailer, Trainer was leary of it but I will keep an eye out for any problems
how would you set that globally?
You should be able to set it in Administration / Templates/ Job Templates/ (enter the edit menu) and set Overprint setting from there.
As per the PM, here's a few shots of doing a ganged-up job. There may be other ways in xMF, but this works for me.
We had two additions of cards to this job. The ones either side, and the ones at the top. You could do it as a W&T inside XMF, but I prefer to 'see' the Flatwork as W&T. Just make sure it works as such. You can work out what's best as you ease into it.
So, the original, Shot1, was awaiting approval. Then they added 2 rounds more to the existing impo. So, each time ---> next post...
..the other 2 elements.
Each time you add a Sig element, go to 'Copy', (you can choose whatever element you want to copy from the standing ones). Your mouse will show a 'live' grey rectangle. Click it onto the impo... then.. go to 'New', in Sig window, and turn it into anything you want, page size, number of vertical/horizontal step-outs, gutter widths.... Then align to where you want them. There are some nice 'jump to' features for stuff like that now. Use measuring tool etc... to position. Lock in.. (important).
You'll need to adjust Clipping Margins. Best done so they 'kiss' each other in the gutters. Say, 20mm Gutter... 10+10 Clipping Margins. Also makes it easier to align when you're zoomed in.
Thanks Frailer, I will be studying that.
I have been doing the W//T's as Flat-so far :laugh:
Thanks for the tip Diddler I fixed all my plate templates
I inadvertently deleted a non essential one :roll eyes:
I will try and figure it out or post back later
Thanks guys!
Not a big deal cuz I don't use the 150 line screen
but I had Komori 150 line Process template
so my question is where in the template does it decipher between spot and process?
Quote from: Tracy on February 06, 2014, 01:24:47 PMThanks Frailer, Trainer was leary of it but I will keep an eye out for any problems
how would you set that globally?
Maybe due to designers burying CMYK=0 elements that shouldn't print. :undecided: A memory of something similar happening. Rare in my experience, though.
... regarding above question, am at home on a Saturday morning here., so can't delve into it. Impodave may pick it up earlier; otherwise I'll look on Monday. We tend to not jig with those, so don't wander in there. We construct from Stripping Sheet Templates mostly. But if you go to 'Edit', it should reveal its inner workings on each one.
Quote from: Tracy on February 07, 2014, 03:01:13 PMNot a big deal cuz I don't use the 150 line screen
but I had Komori 150 line Process template
so my question is where in the template does it decipher between spot and process?
In here...
Interesting. I'm running all 150 here for now. But My Job Templates are setup/named differently. For instance, I have Komori_CMYK, Komori_ K+Spots, Komori_Spots. Same for the other machines except for the QM46, which never runs process.
do you see a way to change them?
mine's all greyed out
Quote from: Tracy on February 10, 2014, 05:34:15 PMdo you see a way to change them?
mine's all greyed out
You can change them by browsing through your screen sets.
aha! I think that is how they are created, I shall not touch it for now :laugh:
got too many other things going.
You guys probably already knew this, but I learned yesterday that you can use 2 different
impo patterns in the same layout!
This is a a job that ends up with a lip, so half the pgs are 8x11 and the rest are 8.5x11
we cut these down before folding on our duplo
weird arrangement is for the tight sheet and bleeds on the tail end only
and the front of the booklet is english and the back a different language
Yeah, you can Option/Click on a page, change size... which is how you did it, right? ::cool: There's some pretty flexible options buried in there.
Another good one to learn is "Versioning". We do a lot of brochures that have just a black plate change for instance, so instead of having multiple impo's for jobs you can have one set of CMY and multiple versions/layers of just K all embedded in one file. Just like you would turn on and off layers in Photoshop.
we have a job during christmas that has black changes, thanks!
Today I had a proof with funky fat type, looks like the old rasterized type problem, but it wasn't
it was not in view plates, or the output pdf I made or the plate I made to check it.
this is something that should never happen, I am going to call fuji but any ideas?
Quote from: Tracy on February 13, 2014, 10:17:17 AMwe have a job during christmas that has black changes, thanks!
Today I had a proof with funky fat type, looks like the old rasterized type problem, but it wasn't
it was not in view plates, or the output pdf I made or the plate I made to check it.
this is something that should never happen, I am going to call fuji but any ideas?
Screenshot(s)? Upload a page for testing, if not too big? :undecided:
Quote from: Tracy on February 13, 2014, 10:17:17 AMwe have a job during christmas that has black changes, thanks!
Today I had a proof with funky fat type, looks like the old rasterized type problem, but it wasn't
it was not in view plates, or the output pdf I made or the plate I made to check it.
this is something that should never happen, I am going to call fuji but any ideas?
What kind of proof file is created? Anything other than a PDF has to be flattened and my guess is the type rasterizes where it touches transparency during the flattening process.
oops, missed the crucial thing... proof-only. You got some kinda ROOM setup? Black Magic that we use is a re-rez of the rendered XMF file @ 720DPI, but would show it as per View Plates. :undecided:
oops sorry, it was the hard proof that was fattened, plated fine and pdf proof was fine.
come to find out, I thought it was an indy pdf, it was a publisher file put into indy and pdf'd :laugh:
so Im gonna wait before I call it in I think
Quote from: Tracy on February 14, 2014, 08:16:38 AMoops sorry, it was the hard proof that was fattened, plated fine and pdf proof was fine.
come to find out, I thought it was an indy pdf, it was a publisher file put into indy and pdf'd :laugh:
so Im gonna wait before I call it in I think
Yeah, my 1st step when opening an unknown-sourced PDF... Cmd+D--> Creator.. . 'Put that thing down, kid... you dunno where it's been...' :laugh: .. but then I guess that's disguised after reExport. :undecided:
ok I found out what the problem was with the proof:
There were clouds behind my text and the text was trapping badly to the clouds.
It was the trapping of the proof, it is a known problem, they have only had a few of these so they haven't fixed it yet.
They are going to contact me again, so the solution is to turn off trapping of the proof, which is not a good solution.
I'll update you as i learn more :laugh:
I found out that when you have 2 different sheet sizes you need to add another workflow see screen shot
if someone knows a different way let me know!
I just split the job into two jobs on the rare occasion when that happens -- i.e. Run the 4 pg.cover on 20x26 Cover W&T or F&B, then run the text on 19x25 whatever, using the same SST ...
Quote from: Tracy on February 18, 2014, 02:37:53 PMI found out that when you have 2 different sheet sizes you need to add another workflow see screen shot
if someone knows a different way let me know!
Don't have to add another workflow, just another plate icon. You can also rename it so you know which one is a cover section.
Agree with dave. Additional WorkFlows seem to introduce other issues, like global re-renders when you don't need them. But could be a case of PICNIC, too. :undecided: But sometimes a clearly labelled separate job suffices. 'JobX_Cover.... JobX:Text.
Thank you! that does seem easier actually.
can you automate the plate slug?
I am clicking for each job, (or not clicking) :laugh:
You can create 'Presets' for any menu item you want. They'll come in as a drop-down when you click/hold that 'Presets' button, top/right. I'll look at how to create one when I'm up there later. You would have seen "Bog Standard_all" in the screen movie, where I dropped down to it. Or if you want to add items after you've auto-placed it, you can. If I have Spot colours I just click 'Separations' button, and drag it up the list to the other checked items. On a process job it's not there, as we use custom Colour IDs, placed in the Grip area.
For sluglines, I tend to use "Management Information". Don't know what the subtle difference is between the two is..
Yeah I get it, but my issue is having to select plate slug line on every job
the job slug I get automatically with my marks
no biggy just annoying
Thanks for all your help :kiss:
Quote from: Tracy on February 19, 2014, 01:38:27 PMYeah I get it, but my issue is having to select plate slug line on every job
the job slug I get automatically with my marks
no biggy just annoying
Thanks for all your help :kiss:
If I remember correctly there is a way to make it select your slug line as the default for a workflow. Don't have the servers anymore to look but if someone else knows maybe they can tell you how.
ok I won't give up then! it's gotta be possible
We probably work on pretty narrow tracks. The Stripping Sheet Template branch line. :laugh: Having said that, once stuff's in place on SSTs, it's there each time you call them up. You may need to ask someone on your install team, or as Joe says wait for Diddler or impodave to answer that.
Just on the setting up of Presets, no matter what kind, here are some shots of setting 'management Info' ones into the Preset dropdown. Once you've got a new one as you want it, go to the 'Save' button; go from there. It will appear next time in the dropdown for the item you're using, along with earlier ones.
I'm good with the management info it's the tab to the left of it, the plate slug line, I'm having to click on every time.
yours is probably automatic, and your not having to think about it.
already getting use to it tho, next time I call I will ask them. I love calling them!
Go to administration_templates_ workflow item templates_ XXXXPlate_ slugline
This should appear on any future jobs requiring this plate. As far as I know, ( which isn't much, believe me) there is no way to add this globally to past work -- you'll have to go back and correct it in any SSTs or Job Templates that you've already created. In the larger sized press job templates, I have the sheet center marks and color bars built in. These will be overwritten in SSTs if you make any alterations as part of the SST, and then copy them for new jobs. Saves a peck of time for me over the long haul. Easily adjusted if circumstances dictate, i.e. full press sheet, etc. I am not as versed as the fellows in the southern hemisphere, so if this isn't clear, tell me .... :rolleyes:
That's it, Thank you!!!! :smiley:
Anyone else having a problem with outputting vector pdf proofs?
oh and thanks for all the help this week, it's been crazy!
Quote from: Tracy on February 21, 2014, 11:59:36 AMAnyone else having a problem with outputting vector pdf proofs?
... as in the ones you Export directly from XMF, pre-rendered.. just imposed? If those, then no, no probs.
Quote from: Tracy on February 21, 2014, 11:59:36 AMAnyone else having a problem with outputting vector pdf proofs?
oh and thanks for all the help this week, it's been crazy!
I think from memory you have to export the PDF to the drive that XMF is on. I don't think you can export it directly to a Mac or PC running the XMF client. Can you elaborate a bit more Tracy on the problem.
Ah yes, could be what she means. We always have to retrieve them form a folder on the server, as you probably do as well. :undecided:
Thanks Guys! looks like I had a bad setting, it was a font thing
my setting did not say embed complete font
it's taking some issues to get everything dialed in
Also found out my trap setting was wrong too.
There are always issues after the installer/trainer goes over the horizon ...
new question-
I have been instructed to use pdf x4's which has a jpeg compression
True or False :laugh:
also I am new to pdf workflow, they say refried pdfs are bad
True or False and why
Thanks guys!
Quote from: Tracy on February 24, 2014, 05:38:30 PMnew question-
I have been instructed to use pdf x4's which has a jpeg compression
True or False :laugh:
also I am new to pdf workflow, they say refried pdfs are bad
True or False and why
Thanks guys!
PDF/X-4 allows for JPEG or ZIP/Flate compression. The Adobe defaults are setup to use JPEG.
Refried PDF's are bad because you take native objects from InDesign, create them in PDF, convert to PostScript (which causes everything to be retranslated from PDF to PS which flattens transparency), convert PostScript back to PDF. A long ways around to get a PDF. Only in the most extraordinary circumstance should a PDF be refried.
Quote from: Tracy on February 24, 2014, 05:38:30 PMalso I am new to pdf workflow, they say refried pdfs are bad
True or False and why
Thanks guys!
I doubt there'll too many occasions when you'll need to do that. On the rare occasion XMF doesn't like a PDF, I'll Optimise at a (carefully set) HiRes setting, but still retaining Transparency. If desperate I'll re-Optimise, but check the Transparency button. And then check rendered result very carefully. Assuming it renders, of course. :laugh:
I think the old re-fry via PostScript is pretty much in disuse now. :undecided: Certainly in my little corner. :punchy:
Quote from: Tracy on February 24, 2014, 05:38:30 PMnew question-
I have been instructed to use pdf x4's which has a jpeg compression
True or False :laugh:
also I am new to pdf workflow, they say refried pdfs are bad
True or False and why
Thanks guys!
I use the X4 settings but change the image compression to ZIP.
Quote from: frailer on February 24, 2014, 07:49:03 PMQuote from: Tracy on February 24, 2014, 05:38:30 PMalso I am new to pdf workflow, they say refried pdfs are bad
True or False and why
Thanks guys!
I doubt there'll too many occasions when you'll need to do that. On the rare occasion XMF doesn't like a PDF, I'll Optimise at a (carefully set) HiRes setting, but still retaining Transparency. If desperate I'll re-Optimise, but check the Transparency button. And then check rendered result very carefully. Assuming it renders, of course. :laugh:
I think the old re-fry via PostScript is pretty much in disuse now. :undecided: Certainly in my little corner. :punchy:
Agreed. Any more I might place a PDF into InDesign and export a PDF from that. It does fix some problems but still retains transparency. Can't remember the last time I converted the PS and distilled back to PDF.
Thanks guys, that clears up a lot of confusion.
and agreed sometime you can't get around re-pdfing out of indy.
But I will try not to.
Hi Matt!
any way to print out the numbered layouts without doing print screen?
printed 10 screens-annoying
job didn't have page numbers so I needed to print out so I could number my proof
Quote from: Tracy on February 26, 2014, 03:26:01 PMany way to print out the numbered layouts without doing print screen?
printed 10 screens-annoying
job didn't have page numbers so I needed to print out so I could number my proof
If you job doesn't have page numbers/folio I usually turn on Blind folio in the Marks list. It will put the page number outside the trim line.
As Diddler says.... Blind Folios. Your problem goes away. Placement is controlled by a combo of the two fields in the dropdown. The one you see is achieved with Face+Foot. We harangued them to increase the choice so we could do this sort of placement (it was missing originally), and we got them to put it in eventually. Looks like it's what you need on your one.
sweeet! thanks guys!
If you need to squeeze 'em into a small gutter, just pull the font size down.
Blind folios outside the trim area are nice in case you have a pack of characters in bindery who don't pay attention to less-than- obvious page numbers when folding ... I usually make mine .25 inch tall in something easy to notice, like Helvetica, at the top of the pages. I leave them on my SSTs if there is adequate space. Helps make folding and finishing "idiot-proof".
Yep, and i Like that you can put them almost anywhere, using those dropdowns. Just a matter of trial and see until you've corralled them. We mostly run jobs with no print-inside folios... glossy entertainment stuff. So Blind Folios are a must-have for us.
Plus there's the habit sometimes of customers numbering inside the job with Page 1 starting at Page 3,.. or 5... or....
Or those that start page 1 on the left, so that all the odd pages end up on the left, and evens on the right .... :death:
Or, better yet, a bunch of Roman numeral pages in the beginning of a book. Might as well be hieroglyphics to most rednecks here in Redneck Nation ... true story.
I love it!!
It will be good for a gang run of business cards too!
You guys using regular creep or face only? or both?
Quote from: Tracy on March 11, 2014, 02:15:05 PMYou guys using regular creep or face only? or both?
I usually stick with face only. I haven't ever had a problem with doing it that way.
...ditto here.
Thanks guys, tech on phone said opposite but I kinda thought that wasn't right.
new question, I often have layouts where i have to have even gutters and the sheet edge needs to match the gutter.
The sheet is cut in half and sent to a die cutter
is there a way to do this without math?
In my world there's always some need for math...since we are a general commercial shop, just receiving correct art is always the challenge.
Mine too, just thought XMF would be magical :laugh:
Thanks Dave!
let me know if I get annoying.
another question, I can't seem to find a way to measure an exact measurement
from the edge of the sheet to a mark, the measure tool seems to be approximate
Like in preps you could select the gutter and it would tell you the exact size
Thanks!
You may have to zoom in before measuring to get an accurate read ...
Quote from: Tracy on March 13, 2014, 10:40:16 AMlet me know if I get annoying.
I think you would probably win the least annoying award around here. :laugh:
Quote from: Joe on March 13, 2014, 02:56:56 PMQuote from: Tracy on March 13, 2014, 10:40:16 AMlet me know if I get annoying.
I think you would probably win the least annoying award around here. :laugh:
...an I would win most annoying.
Quote from: DigiCorn on March 13, 2014, 03:12:13 PMQuote from: Joe on March 13, 2014, 02:56:56 PMQuote from: Tracy on March 13, 2014, 10:40:16 AMlet me know if I get annoying.
I think you would probably win the least annoying award around here. :laugh:
...an I would win most annoying.
I wouldn't get too grandiose about it. There may be one or two others. :laugh:
Quote from: impodave on March 13, 2014, 01:41:43 PMYou may have to zoom in before measuring to get an accurate read ...
Yeah, that's what I do here too. Maybe drag in some guides once you've zoomed in. Keyboard shortcuts help too.
-Cmd+F -> Zoom
-Cmd+D -> Select.
-Cmd+R -> Measure
..all right near each other. :cool:
Quote from: frailer on March 13, 2014, 03:58:55 PMQuote from: impodave on March 13, 2014, 01:41:43 PMYou may have to zoom in before measuring to get an accurate read ...
Yeah, that's what I do here too. Maybe drag in some guides once you've zoomed in. Keyboard shortcuts help too.
-Cmd+F -> Zoom
-Cmd+D -> Select.
-Cmd+R -> Measure
..all right near each other. :cool:
Just be careful of Cmd+Q. :laugh:
Quote from: Joe on March 13, 2014, 04:02:55 PMQuote from: frailer on March 13, 2014, 03:58:55 PMQuote from: impodave on March 13, 2014, 01:41:43 PMYou may have to zoom in before measuring to get an accurate read ...
Yeah, that's what I do here too. Maybe drag in some guides once you've zoomed in. Keyboard shortcuts help too.
-Cmd+F -> Zoom
-Cmd+D -> Select.
-Cmd+R -> Measure
..all right near each other. :cool:
Just be careful of Cmd+Q. :laugh:
Yeah, watch that pinkie... :grin:
Thanks guys! :smiley:
Anybody know if it is possible from XMF to produce a PDF with the guides showing where the creep is to be applied. I can make it happen on our low res epson proofs with blackmagic ruling up the sheet but can't seem to make it happen on a PDF.
Diddler or impodave may confirm this, but am pretty sure PDF Exports from XMF are just imposed regurgitates, with no creep enhancements. Having said that, I'll test here... as we have a current job with Creep Adjustment.
Quote from: frailer on March 25, 2014, 04:30:58 PMDiddler or impodave may confirm this, but am pretty sure PDF Exports from XMF are just imposed regurgitates, with no creep enhancements. Having said that, I'll test here... as we have a current job with Creep Adjustment.
Yeah, your correct Frailer, they are not from the rendered data that Blackmagic uses to create the PDFs. The only way I can of is to measure the printed low res sheet and rule up the PDFs in XMF. But that would be a PITA.
The only workaround I've got is to Export the formes from Black Magic. You're getting the rendered view, which will reflect the creep adjust. I then Optimise those to bring file size down without sacrificing too much in the way of quality. Sounds fiddlier than it is.
I took some time to get a good Optimise preset, so let me know if you want it.
My policy with creep adjust in regards to customers is to tell them absolutely nothing. Would be in shock if a customer ever noticed that a page was 207 instead of 210 in the centre of a saddle stitch. Am talking 'Creep Face Only' here. Even if the measured it, it's legit prepress manipulation so the job can bind properly. So you could argue that they are interfering in ares they shouldn't be. Well, you could try.... :laugh:
curious what black magic is, I don't have it
I think this is it.
http://www.serendipity-software.com.au/products/blackmagic/ (http://www.serendipity-software.com.au/products/blackmagic/)
I like that first FAQ on the home page:
(http://finalscoreshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/whatsinthebox.jpg)
wish I had black magic, they are coming to dial in our proofs a little better tho.
Quote from: Tracy on March 26, 2014, 12:02:19 PMwish I had black magic, they are coming to dial in our proofs a little better tho.
Blackmagic is a simple but very powerful addition to our workflow, essential I would say for our day to day proofing.
I'm going to be working on a job today It's an 80pg perfect bind going on cover stock
I have 16 pg and 2-32pg sigs that get cut to 16's
I need to add creep to the 32pg but need to apply it to the 16pg sigs only, Is this possible?
I'll be putting in a call to fuji on this but any thoughts would be great.
don't have the files yet, I do have the previous sample and creep is going to be a must
Creep on a perfect bound book?
That's exactly what I was thinking. Is it being printed on chipboard?
you think i'm trippin? :laugh:
the whole book is on cover stock, and they have something close to the edge on each page
the sigs will be folded down as 16s
Beat that designer with a stick.
ok I think I am trippin even with the 80lb cover it might be ok
yeah this book has a perf on each pg, a back pg that's shorter with a flap and perf and a die cut thingy it goes into.
uv and numbering too. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Tracy on March 27, 2014, 11:35:58 AMyou think i'm trippin? :laugh:
the whole book is on cover stock, and they have something close to the edge on each page
the sigs will be folded down as 16s
I'm not following how they are going to fold a 32 down as a 16?
Quote from: Joe on March 27, 2014, 11:51:40 AMQuote from: Tracy on March 27, 2014, 11:35:58 AMyou think i'm trippin? :laugh:
the whole book is on cover stock, and they have something close to the edge on each page
the sigs will be folded down as 16s
I'm not following how they are going to fold a 32 down as a 16?
Double web? :grin:
Yeah we do that all of the time on the web press. I assume, maybe incorrectly, that they are sheetfed.
To the original question, Tracy, yes, it is possible to be selective with creep. I would set the thickness in the "Default Creep", then you can choose which sheets you want to have Default Creep applied to.
I'm going to lunch but I can post screenshots in a little while if you need me to elaborate.
yes please do!!
I will have a 32 pg sig that cuts to 16s and then folds
so I need the creep on the 16s,
they have art that is 1/32 close to the edge-maroons -sigh :rolleyes:
Tracey, Are you doing the impo in pagination mode or just as a regular template mode. I'm in the office in 30 mins and can help you also if needed. Don't panic it's not hard.
never did pagination mode :undecided:
I wouldn't think you would require creep on a perfect bound book. Don't you just stack the folded sigs when collating ?? :wink:
If not using pagination mode then the easiest way would be to just select the page required (far left circle) then look at the job page (top right circle) properties and select over ride creep for the page. hope this helps.
You might require slight gutters for the grind on the perfect binder, though...
How heavy is the cover stock ?? Sounds like a FUN folding project if you intend on folding down from 16 Pages... :huh:
No creep required on perfect bound projects, they should stack in position when collated.
just found out they are folding to 8pg sigs now and then binding. 16pg sigs for this paper was ridiculous
the paper is 80lb cover for the whole book (80pgs and they have an image 1/32 close to the edge
I think I'm ok now, but good to know you can add creep on a split sig
I do get that creep shouldn't be needed in a 16pg sig but If you could see how close to the edge I'm working with and the thick paper.
Help! I'm on the edge :laugh:
yeah - but I think she's thinking if it's a 16-page sig on cover weight stock, it would still experience slight push-out
that's it.
Can you reduce the image a little?
Didn't think of that!
with the sigs being folded in 8ths I didn't add creep.
(we have a communication problem here)
I'm done now, shoo wee that was a big job all the die's and the perfs
found out were only running 1000 the rest will be printing in China :rolleyes:
Thanks all! it helps to just being able to have feedback!
Sorry Tracy, I thought you mentioned you had Black Magic. :old:
On that book, are you talking separate (saddle stitch) sections that are stacked to complete the book? I.e.... Section Sewn? If so, you'll need the overall (measured) creep, ideally, from a mockup of the 16pp. Then do the calculation as per the Creep Video, and apply/switch on/off as Diddler shows. Should be home and hosed.
You'll also need to use 'Assembly Sections', (2nd icon), to separate the nested saddle sections to enable automatic page flow.
I don't normally put creep on anything under 50 pages SS. I've never had to creep a PB book but combine a moron designer, thick stock and 16 page forms and maybe it's possible. If the designer is that clueless that there is a element so close that a 8 pg form needs creep please PM me the address, I have a package that needs to be sent.
http://www.poopsenders.com/ (http://www.poopsenders.com/)
I creep about 20-24 pages and more, depending on paper thickness. If it's 100# text, I start at 20, and 60-80# at 24, but if it's like 20# Bond, I'll let it go maybe as far as 32. We usually do those digitally, so we take a face trim, and I want to make sure shit is outta the way.
we creep anything over 12 pages
I actually was going to add creep to the 8pg sigs :laugh:
I talked to the lady at the bindery and she's going to grind extra if needed and watch the edges for me
this 8.5 wide book fits into a 8.562 wide die cut box foldy thing so I couldn't have her overtrim into the bleed
I was pretty much a spas yesterday, Im the one who has to figure the dies and imposition etc..
I got no peeps, well cept you guys :kiss:
Quote from: Tracy on March 28, 2014, 12:33:23 PMI actually was going to add creep to the 8pg sigs :laugh:
I talked to the lady at the bindery and she's going to grind extra if needed and watch the edges for me
this 8.5 wide book fits into a 8.562 wide die cut box foldy thing so I couldn't have her overtrim into the bleed
I was pretty much a spas yesterday, Im the one who has to figure the dies and imposition etc..
I got no peeps, well cept you guys :kiss:
Easy in XMF to create a white/non-print gutter in your Sig. In Sig window>Gutters>l'il hash icon. Set your spine to the required amount, as discussed with Bindery Lady, of course. We often do 2mm.
Gotta make sure your spine Bleeds are set to zero, otherwise there'll be ink there.
You have chosen Perfect Bound up front? Just checkin' :cheesy:
selected perfect bind-check!
hmm, didn't know to remove spine bleed
I will check out xmf on that
edit: I see what your saying
It's up to the bindery really about ink in the spine. Some want it. Some don't. Some don't care. The theory is that the glue holds better on plain paper than paper covered in ink.
Quote from: Tracy on March 28, 2014, 02:52:41 PMselected perfect bind-check!
hmm, didn't know to remove spine bleed
I will check out xmf on that
edit: I see what your saying
In Sig window>Bleed, make 'Spine' field zero.
I never understood about the ink issue. I tend to not go out of my way to remove spine bleed, they are going to grind it off anyway.
Thanks Frailer!
do you have in-house bindery?
Quote from: Farabomb on March 31, 2014, 07:45:28 AMI never understood about the ink issue. I tend to not go out of my way to remove spine bleed, they are going to grind it off anyway.
Agreed. But there are bindery people that say it affects the glue. Personally I just think that is an excuse to cover some shoddy work out there. We presently let the ink go into the spine here but you never know when that might change.
they actually want us to bleed the work into the grind.. and then complain when we don't do it.
As far a I get told from bindery is that some glues are better with ink and some not so. :shrug:
Another one is If there is a fly sheet/transparency page glued in, you can also apply negative bleed to remove the ink. I know its rare but just happened to me last week.
Quote from: Diddler on March 31, 2014, 05:12:23 PMAs far a I get told from bindery is that some glues are better with ink and some not so. :shrug:
Another one is If there is a fly sheet/transparency page glued in, you can also apply negative bleed to remove the ink. I know its rare but just happened to me last week.
Little tricks you forget if you don't use much. Like getting a stable/averaged dot reading in Rendered View... marquee an area with Dropper Tool, %age shown for that box.
Had a job today-repeat with a paper/layout change
I wanted to copy the job and not write over the other layout.
When I copied, the file was missing but the layout was there
so I replaced the pages.
Am I doing it right?
If the job specs for the new job are already being used by another job in the queue, that would work - just rename the new job and continue. But I think the new job will end up in the list directly above the job you copied in the queue. Probably not a big deal. If it's one you use a lot, be sure to save as a Stripping Sheet Template for retrieval later. Don't know if this answered your question or not. :tongue:
fuji guy told me today, that i could archive the job and then when I restore, restore with a new name
I had a whole list of questions for them today :cool:
Archive and restore to a new job number is the way I do repeat jobs, but as impodave says you could save the templates and do it that you also. I would use 2nd option if using imposition mode and need to change settings as you mentioned
What is imposition mode?
Quote from: Tracy on April 01, 2014, 03:47:12 PMWhat is imposition mode?
Tracy, Press this button to do a job in impo mode. Much easier for bookwork I find. I did this 192pp in about 30 sections using this method.
I've written the real basics to start with, let me know if you need more help.
And if your using different sheet sizes you need to drag Sheet groups to a different plate in your workflow. But you probably already know that one.
Thanks Did!
I found you can control click on the overlay button and you can get almost all dimensions needed
Quote from: Tracy on March 27, 2014, 02:58:11 PMjust found out they are folding to 8pg sigs now and then binding. 16pg sigs for this paper was ridiculous
the paper is 80lb cover for the whole book (80pgs and they have an image 1/32 close to the edge
My inner production fairy is ringing - are they still THINKING they can fold 80# cover from an 8pp signature? Never in my 25+ years has that been done without creasing on the inside pages - impossible. Same goes for 100# paper. Never. For cover weight, I have had to do 4pp and multiple pass thru perfect binder if necessary. I am smelling a FUBAR here.
the job had an L perf on all pages I added a perf for the fold
I totally sweated this thing out, Sounds like you understand the issue
Quote from: Tracy on April 01, 2014, 03:47:12 PMWhat is imposition mode?
Sorry Tracy, what i've been calling Imposition mode is actually referred to as Pagination mode. :ohno: Sorry for any confusion, I've been answering too early in the morning before my brain is in gear.
Quote from: impodave on April 01, 2014, 09:32:30 AMIf the job specs for the new job are already being used by another job in the queue, that would work - just rename the new job and continue. But I think the new job will end up in the list directly above the job you copied in the queue. Probably not a big deal. If it's one you use a lot, be sure to save as a Stripping Sheet Template for retrieval later. Don't know if this answered your question or not. :tongue:
yeah stripping sheets are kinda getting clearer, still getting use to not having a bunch of templates!
Quote from: Diddler on April 01, 2014, 03:53:45 PMQuote from: Tracy on April 01, 2014, 03:47:12 PMWhat is imposition mode?
Tracy, Press this button to do a job in impo mode. Much easier for bookwork I find. I did this 192pp in about 30 sections using this method.
I've written the real basics to start with, let me know if you need more help.
And if your using different sheet sizes you need to drag Sheet groups to a different plate in your workflow. But you probably already know that one.
oh yeah, I pressed that button once and you get that funny message "all kinds of workflow items"
sounds like you know your sheets :laugh: not intended
I've never quite understood that message you get that it say's it's "Disregarding your settings" when you have even started to apply them. Have no fear press on the sheets get better. :grin:
Stinkin' XMF warning boxes, FFS! You get used to ignoring them.
Quote from: Tracy on April 02, 2014, 02:27:48 PMQuote from: impodave on April 01, 2014, 09:32:30 AMIf the job specs for the new job are already being used by another job in the queue, that would work - just rename the new job and continue. But I think the new job will end up in the list directly above the job you copied in the queue. Probably not a big deal. If it's one you use a lot, be sure to save as a Stripping Sheet Template for retrieval later. Don't know if this answered your question or not. :tongue:
yeah stripping sheets are kinda getting clearer, still getting use to not having a bunch of templates!
Pretty much akin the PREPS Sheet Templates. Just sitting in a different environment with a different name. YMMV, but here we tend to pull in SSTs, then copy/move the ones we bring in until the job's how we need it. Pretty quick once you're in the swing of it.
I find it easier than having a big cupboard full of full Templates with varying page counts. Skinning cats, I guess.
Yeah, stupid XMF error messages. :rolleyes:
can xmf warn about ink density?
Your Pitstop preflight profiles in XMF can be set to warn you about ink density though I don't know if that is set in the standard ones installed with XMF.
Edited to add: You can create your own custom preflights in Acrobat using Pitstop and them use them in XMF. You can do some really neat stuff if you learn all the ins and outs and tips-n-tricks of Pitstop.
Quote from: Tracy on April 10, 2014, 04:15:20 PMcan xmf warn about ink density?
I don't know if it will warn you of ink density but you can check the total density with the eyedropper tool.
It is possible to make an action list in pitstop and import at a preflight check. I will play around with one today to try and resolve your question.
It's just Friday madness at the moment.
... and if you want to measure without the ink-dropper tool jumping all over the place in its value-reads, drag/marquee an area you want to read. It will then give you the reading for that box when hovering over.
Thanks guys and no rush on any of this
I think ink density is the hardest part of my job, I lower everything to about 280 max
I don't like changing the customer images, but I have to.
I had something really bad happen in acro's convert to profile, so now all conversion is in Photoshop
oh and the newly discovered pitstop convert to profile
guess I'm gonna have to force myself to learn actions, I'm more of a global change girl tho :laugh:
You can save a global change as an action. And then chain multiple actions into one action.
You can also create a preflight profile in Pitstop that will change your ink density as well as just warning about it.
that pitstop preflight profile sounds awesome, how do I learn that? :laugh:
are you finding pitstop 12 to have some good tools?
downloaded pitstop 12 manual, I'll check back in someday if I get the actions :laugh:
Open up a preflight profile for editing and experiment is the best way I have found to learn.
Image corrections without Photoshop, gradient corrections without Illustrator, scaling and rotating images/ text/vectors with the mouse (see attached screen shots)....yeah it is awesome! And getting better with each and every update.
Oh and with the latest version you can create your own custom keyboard shortcuts. :iwin:
I saw that you can select a specific font, that sounded interesting
found these, I don't have 12 yet, but want to ask my boss for $$$
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62122709/Actions.pdf
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/62122709/PitStopReference12.pdf
12 is worth every penny and then some. I think they have added more new features in 12 than they did in 7 through 11 combined.
Hmmm, after this surge in work I can try and pitch getting 12. Pitstop 7 works but with all the PDF's we see having more options in editing might be worth it. Have they really changed it that much?
I went from 7 to 11 and It works way better
11 is better.
(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2437043/11.jpg)
Quote from: Farabomb on April 11, 2014, 01:03:16 PMHmmm, after this surge in work I can try and pitch getting 12. Pitstop 7 works but with all the PDF's we see having more options in editing might be worth it. Have they really changed it that much?
Like I said...
Image corrections without going into photoshop
Gradient creation and correction
Font replacement through monotype (requires account and $$$ but it works well)
Text search & replace
Image and vector in-place scaling and rotation
And many more added features under the hood (actions)
It's better than hot soup on a cold day. :laugh:
I'll just have to find everything again but you sold me.
Now I just have to sell it to the boss.
Just make sure it will run on your OS version and Acrobat version. It might not if you are still using Pitstop 7. :tongue:
:tongue:
I meet the specs. Snow leopard and I have up to Acrocrap X but I use 9.
Yes, I know you're supposed to check all this stuff, but... These buggers can get you into strife if you leave them switched on on a single cut job.
Just spoke to Folder Guy, he says doesn't need them. In process of eliminating them from here on in. But YMMV.
Also, the top Left button 'Restrict Marks to Outer Edge' does NOT seem to override this element. I regard that as a bug; just mentioning it.
Under Dynamic Marks...
do you have a screen shot of it causing a problem?
Replacing Developer Scrub covers- every other cleaning?
True or False :laugh:
Fuji JH-PJ's? Not here. Maybe once every 3-4 cleanings.
Thanks! Yeah I was told every other, was doubtful about that.
Quote from: Farabomb on April 17, 2014, 10:00:01 AMFuji JH-PJ's? Not here. Maybe once every 3-4 cleanings.
Our Fuji plate processor has a software counter for the scrub covers. It allows for 9000 m2 of plates between scrub cover changes and the machine will give you a warning. Works out to about 3 - 4 times a year for us. You can check on plate counts, developer life and scrub cover life with the touch screen control screen on the processor.
how many plates before a cleaning?
I have a mix of 3 plate sizes 40, 24, and 19", with Kodak I cleaned around 1000 plates
Quote from: Tracy on April 17, 2014, 08:45:34 AMdo you have a screen shot of it causing a problem?
No, but on Tuesday I'll post a camera shot of the printed sheet, brought in to pp room, where a big Texta circle was drawn around it. :embarrassed: Had it been set as a cross-hair, they may have got away with it. It was a small cross+ring target. Bugger.
Bugger
Went to change the size of a trim box, and couldn't figure it out
not worth a call to fuji yet, I could change the size but it was not centered.
also checking back about the amount of plates you run before cleaning
I use to run 1000 of mixed 40's 24,s and 19 inch plates
Fuji did the 1st cleaning a month after install
Andyfest you must have a better processor than I do but I will check it out
I know people adjust PDFs within XMF, but I tend not to. Prefer to PitStop 'em upstream. Can you screenshot where it's going wonky?
Quote from: Tracy on April 17, 2014, 03:13:05 PMhow many plates before a cleaning?
I have a mix of 3 plate sizes 40, 24, and 19", with Kodak I cleaned around 1000 plates
We clean on the last Friday of the month, every month. At that point we have produced on average 2000 plates - a mix of 29 in & 40 in plates.
... sorry Tracy, you meant size of trimbox within an imposition? :undecided: Thought you meant on a PDF incoming.
Thanks Andy!
I will screen shot later Frailer! thanks
Quote from: frailer on April 20, 2014, 04:33:15 PM... sorry Tracy, you meant size of trimbox within an imposition? :undecided: Thought you meant on a PDF incoming.
If i think I understand your question Tracy, You need to select Advanced scaling in the Content Adjust. Or probably a easier/better way would be to do it in Page box settings when originally importing the PDF.
Thanks for the screen shots
mine our greyed out
This is not something I would do very often, but just curious
Changing presses I lose the layout, Doing something wrong or just the way it is?
Yeah, if there's a way around that, I'm not sure what it would be. You could save the job temporarily as an SST, then start over with the new press config.
Yeah, SSTs are always a pretty painless workaround. If you've already got an impo set up, it's a few seconds to save it off to the SST folder, then re-purpose it... then Copy, whatever.
I have a nested job and I am getting bleed cutoff from one item
I have a call into fuji, just waiting
also can you have 2 different sheet sizes in one job?
nesting jobs are a problem, I'm going to have to layout in indy.
they have an update this summer that may fix this.
Tracy, just explain what you mean by 'nested'. You mean 'ganged'? Or do you mean Assembly Sections?
Different Sheet sizes in a job are an issue, pretty sure.
Their diecut pieces that nest 4-up, the thing is I use to have it in preps
and redid it in xmf everything went great except the bleed on 2 of the overlapping
flaps, Fuji told me they are working on an update for this summer
And I will have to layout in indy :banghead:
I will post a screen shot on monday.
Also I had a 130 pg book that coil binds, mixed black and white pgs and color pages
Color ran f-1 and f-2 Fronts the rest on 6 other forms
I got my experience with the page mapping
shoo doggies, I earned my money today.
Hmm.. seems odd that there be an issue with bleeds in flaps, if they were set up as 'proper' PDFs. :undecided:
Yeah, page mapping, when you need it, is great. And you can drag'n'drop now, whereas before, you had to key in page numbers to the field. Much slower and more prone to error.
Preps has issues with nested impos as well. I normally end up doing the layout in indy.
You're better off to split the different sheet sizes into two jobs...
That's what I did!
less heartache :cheesy:
I'm new to the rendered pdf
wondering if they really are a reliable pdf, and do you send your customer a high res pdf
and drop box it or something and does lowering the resolution cause a problem?
Considering they are what makes your plates they better be reliable. For a customer proof I would not res it down unless they're not concerned about quality. And yes Dropbox or any other method you have to get it to them.
Are you talking rendered from your proofing route? We have Black Magic, which is where I Export from. Then have a preset to get file size down. Always call it 'LoRes' so if they zoom in they don't get a surprise, but they look pretty good still.
Maybe some details of your intended route to get your PDF?
If you need my Acrobat Optimize settings let me know. I think it's a happy medium, and they're still emailable size.
yeah, I have been reducing file size, but kinda new that probably wasn't right
I will drop box the ones that matter from now on.
I would love to have your optimized settings Frailer
Thanks again guys!
YouSendIt/ZIP on way.
Quote from: Tracy on June 12, 2014, 10:47:34 AMI'm new to the rendered pdf
wondering if they really are a reliable pdf, and do you send your customer a high res pdf
and drop box it or something and does lowering the resolution cause a problem?
If your talking about the PDFs that are just exported from XMF I have been told about 2 version ago by a Fuji Rep that they are not rendered just like the 3D proofs aren't either. AFAIK the only way to guarantee what is on the PDF to plate is to use a Rasterised PDF. Maybe in the newer versions they have changed it. We Run Blackmagic to generate all our PDF proofs just like Frailer.
ooh, thanks for that info! I don't like the rasterized pdfs
so I changed to vector, can you elaborate on Black Magic?
what do you need to get that?
Quote from: Tracy on June 13, 2014, 08:40:08 AMooh, thanks for that info! I don't like the rasterized pdfs
so I changed to vector, can you elaborate on Black Magic?
what do you need to get that?
It's a whole press-proofing system. Serendipity Software (http://www.serendipity-software.com.au/support) Good bang for buck. Started by an Aussie guy but sold worldwide.. Great support, continued development.
What do you currently use for press proofs?
In our case, rasterised PDFs are a side benefit of the main game; outputting press-proofs for sign-off/press-running.
We have "Pleasing color" only no calibration on our proofs
check out screen shot
looks like xmf is doing some weird trap
at the fold of my 4 color black. I have the black turned off so you can see what it's doing
I have a call into fuji in the am
but any thoughts?
Hmm.. have you checked out your relevant pages in PitStop Wireframe? Could be trapping, but may not be.
Open the job, select the 2 pages (as per screenshot scenario). Uncheck Trapping. Re-render. See if it goes away.
Don't forget to re-render again if you need Trapping on the job.
You could try 'Suppress Trapping at Page Boundaries', though I've never tried that. (D'Oh!... it's on by defaullt. Ignore that... :embarrassed: )
If that is a "rich" black, it is probably the pullback of the c, m, and y from the black.
I see that all the time on register marks.
Quote from: david on June 18, 2014, 04:18:20 AMIf that is a "rich" black, it is probably the pullback of the c, m, and y from the black.
what he said :goodpost:
How do you make it stop? :laugh:
bomb it's the piece above the mark, I have the black turned off.
Thanks frailer, didn't know that was there, gonna try it on my cover first
but can't imagine that you can turn off trapping.
I will let you know what fuji says.
suppress trapping at boundries wasn't on
fixed my cover!
If those are 2 pages butting together I'd check the original art. I'd be the hell out of printing and on my own island if I had a nickel for every time I had to go into art and pull boxes all the way to the spine.
As far as the white I just leave it. Hasn't been an issue for us.
It's the center spread and we have a press check!!!
my suppress trapping at page boundaries is not on as a default
fuji said it's not suppose to be which sounds weird
so I just changed the settings for those 2 pages
considering changing the default tho
your probably right tho bomb :wink:
Quote from: Tracy on June 18, 2014, 08:08:40 AMHow do you make it stop? :laugh:
bomb it's the piece above the mark, I have the black turned off.
Thanks frailer, didn't know that was there, gonna try it on my cover first
but can't imagine that you can turn off trapping.
I will let you know what fuji says.
suppress trapping at boundries wasn't on
fixed my cover!
with the black on does it get covered up?
If you have a rich black trap, set that to zero on the pullback.
If it is that shift the page in slightly so they meet.
Quote from: Tracy on June 18, 2014, 09:41:41 AMIt's the center spread and we have a press check!!!
If it is a center spread did they by chance set it up in the page layout app as two separate picture boxes. One for the LHP and one for the RHP. If so that might be what caused it. Most people would just use one picture box across the whole spread. Then it shouldn't apply any trapping to the middle of the spread.
You could always allow it to creep in slightly to cover up that line. Doesn't look like it would take much ...
turning on suppress trapping at page boundaries worked.
kinda weird that it is not set to default,
If it is set to default does it mean it's not going to trap any bleed?
I guess I can test that out myself! :laugh:
The brisque never did this :laugh:
My Fujifilm advice seems of a slightly higher quality than yours, sometimes. Have a notion that Suppress at Boundaries is meant to deal with just such a scenario.
Cannot see why it should not be default>On.
I'm thinking that too!
Thanks frailer
I already figured out how to set it as default :wink:
Quote from: Tracy on June 18, 2014, 04:20:12 PMI already figured out how to set it as default :wink:
Now you can tell me. :laugh: Ours was 'pre-set'.
You have to go to the templates and do it for each press, Select the press and at the bottom select edit
I haven't done it yet, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to make it the default
:cool:
I'm new to "Replenisher"
I just cleaned the processor last week.
The conductivity of the Developer is suppose to be 43 + or - 2
I have been having to manually add replenisher to get that number up
this morning it was at 37 got it up to 43 ran 4 40" plates went down to 42
4 more 40's went down to 41
You should have 3 tanks on the side. One distilled water, one DT2-R and one FN-6. The processor should be handling the replenishment from these tanks.
That's if you're running the LH-PJ plates.
yes, LHPJ
what is the conductivity level on your processor running?
Possibly worrying too much on the levels?
did you read my post about the levels?
There is another post besides the one above mine?
I'm running the PJ here. Conductivity is the same, 43 +/- 2 keeps the green light on. On the side opposite of the panel is 3 5gal jugs. First is distilled water, second is DT2-R and the third is FN-6 gum in a 2:1 ratio. Keep the water and DT-2R filled and you shouldn't have issues for 60 days. If the conductivity is bouncing around they may have to adjust your replenishment rate.
What I've learned in my years of use. Scrub roller in the Dev section doesn't have to be replaced at the recommended interval. If you want to be safe, every other wash. I go a lot longer than that.
The scrub roller you can see will get funk on it depending on the tap water. You can use a power washer to get it off but every friggin time I do it I end up bleeding and there is funk back on it within 2 weeks.
Watch the drive chains. If it starts making really funky noises when the rollers are turning check the setscrews on the drive motor. They have been known to back off. Just take the plastic cover off on the side with the panel and you'll see it. Align the sprocket to the other sprocket and tighten and that should work.
If you manage to run either the distilled water or the DT-2R out (no low level alarms) and the conductivity goes out of spec you can spike the dev tank with the opposite of what you ran out of. If you ran the water dry, spike it with some DT-2W. Get close and it should sort itself out.
Keep extra Dev filters handy. They are the 12" ones so you can't steal them from your water filtration system.
I have a extra hose that goes to the drain so when cleaning I just put it on the petcock of the tank I'm draining when cleaning and it goes down the drain instead of a bucket that can overflow. I also keep the second dev tank (overflow really) always open and hooked to the drainline. Don't have to worry about the daily drain they recommend.
As far as the conductivity, I know shops that run the chemistry 2x longer than the recommended. I don't just because I don't want the worry but you can go a little longer if needed.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
I am not a Fuji Tech so YMMV but it's worked for me.
Hey thanks F-Bomb!
The problem worked itself out this morning
I manually added about 12-16oz of replenisher yesterday
so I may have something going on tho.
I have been wondering why they didn't set that 1st wash to the
drain, I'm draining that everyday.
I'm starting to get to know the processor, it is really different, Thanks!
Dang that sounds like a high maintenance processor. Glad I don't have to deal with that.
It actually isn't. Cleaning is a breeze. Just keep the tanks topped up and it just works.
Much better than the Kodak POS we had before and worlds better than the AGFA LAP-V evilness I used to clean. Rollers on that fucker were about 60".
Good, I was surprised, thinking a Fuji processor was a PITA. I used a Fuji plate processor years ago, when we still burned film to plate and I loved it. Very simple design, especially when compared to all the G&J monstrosities. I currently run a G&J but the Anocoil N chemistry is soooper low maint. Keep 'em topped and you have a huge develop window.
Our Agfa C95 is the easiest processor every to clean. The worst was the Agfa LP85. Damn that purple crap, the neutralizer and backflushing. Never again!
[edit] actually, I think they're all rebadged G&Js
Yep, pretty sure if it's not Fuji, it's probably a re-badged G&J.
Same with platesetters. I have a Fuji Javelin which is actually a Screen PT-R8600.
Ear is right, it's a G&L.
Mine is a Lastra (G&J).
Easier to clean than my previous processor, I have a refurbished processor
not a brand new one, Getting use to watching the numbers of the chemistry
Never had to do that before.
I never watch it. if it gets pissed, it throws the red light. I don't know why you're having to watch it all the time.
Oh, and you can still run plates through with the red light on.
:laugh:
I'm watching the numbers cuz Sometimes the developer is under 41
Is that even critical?
seems ok today tho.
Is the red light on?
Yes = worry a little
No = Go find some kittens on the internet.
:laugh:
no red light, I'll go find some kittens!
I got one, want her?
Careful, she's a biter.
More of a stabber.
How about a cat? I have 2 and the bastards haven't caught the mouse in my house. It's been 2 months.
I had to throw one of them at the mouse because they didn't even notice it.
That would be cool to meet kitten :grin:
f-bomb good to hear you have spoiled rotten cats!