Need some info from someone who runs copiers
We have a Docucolor 5000, I'm having difficulties having my proof come out.
It's a blue color c61 m20 y15 k40 on 12pt Tango lots of coverage.
It's not coming out very smooth at all.
So my question is what are the best settings to change for this?
We just had service so I don't think it's that.
The previous copy girl, no longer works here, and the one that does, doesn't know much.
I think it's too much (color-coverage) for our copier, but I want to try.
color copiers anyone? :laugh:
It ran better 1-up instead of 2-up
I could not do that job, it's very frustrating
Sorry Tracy...I almost never use the color copier but can you go to a lower line screen on it? Like if you are running at 150 LPI can you go down to 133 LPI?
Thanks Joe I will try it. :)
makes sense too!
No worky
I'm going to tell them I only can do black covers :laugh:
seriously It's outta my hands, the copier is kind of old,
It's not capable of mixing certain colors
They need to call a professional :laugh:
Stick to litho, good girl!
Seriously though, copiers and digital presses are a headache.
Yeah I just went looking through our settings and I can't find a place to change LPI either. You might want to try some different settings in this area though. For example change 'Super-Fine' to 'Fine'. The 'Dithering' settings might make a difference too.
Quote from: born2print on January 15, 2016, 02:57:36 PMStick to litho, good girl!
Seriously though, copiers and digital presses are a headache.
While I agree they are a headache this piece of crap here is making a fortune for our owners.
Quote from: Joe on January 15, 2016, 03:00:07 PMQuote from: born2print on January 15, 2016, 02:57:36 PMStick to litho, good girl!
Seriously though, copiers and digital presses are a headache.
While I agree they are a headache this piece of crap here is making a fortune for our owners.
I hear that here too... "Huge revenue stream"
#buzzwordoftheweek
I can only imagine how much it could make if it weren't broke down 50% of the time. :rotf:
Where is the break from color copier to "digital press"?
I just started operating a little Oki C931e... they call it a Digital Press, but it looks like a damn copy machine. It has an EFI on the front but you can still print as a desktop printer. Is there a distinction or does it just vignette from copier to press? I'm offset and none of 'em look like a "press" to me.
The guys that come in to service them calls ours a digital press. I laugh when they say that. I would call something like the Nexpress a digital press.
Indigo = digital press
Shit that uses static to stick toner on substrate = f^@&!g copier
Right! Nexpress, Indigo, etc... my Oki has the exact same shape and footprint of the Imagistics copier that is next to it. I've been inside them both and they are quite different, but still, it is hardly a press.
I like the little dude, don't get me wrong. I think: Large Digital Printer is to Press as Fiery is to Prinergy. :rotf: Nerverackin' Fiery. And the little digital techs get all butthurt if you call Fiery a baby rip.
:hello: Born, beat me to it with the Indigo, Yo Yo
:-*
No dithering over here Joe,
Seriously I give up, It did come out better 1-up
I think that's why I'm prepress I need it to come out exactly how it's suppose to
I think the newer copiers are suppose to print without oil so it's better? who knows
Not necessarily. We've had more lousy color fading from a 700 with wax-based toner than from the Docucolor 240 it replaced that had oil-based toner. They are just plain moody.
so the streakiness of some colors are just the nature of the beast?
Can be, I also read a piece recently about how horrible humidity (or the lack thereof) can be for digital substrates too. But since we're all working in perfectly climate-controlled environments, that's not a culprit eh?
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
If you are talking about a mottle colour, then it is the nature of digital printing with some presses. If it is streaks, then probably a fuser belt or colour drums.
Digital is a must in print these days. For full colour small runs going to press is just not economical. Full colour business cards used to be a thing only the big fortune 500 companies would have.
I find blues can be an issue on digital. Doing large full solids of various shades of blue usually gives me a mottle look and I try and avoid it best I can when designing.
Digital presses may look like photocopiers, but if you compare the quality of prints coming out of a "digital press" to a full on office copier, they are worlds apart. We started with a Doc 12, moved to a 260, J75 and now a Versant 2100. Best digital machine I have ever run, makes my life so much simpler now when it comes to printing digital.
I screw with my friend that services copiers all the time. I let him go on his little chest puffing exercise about their newest machine and how it does this and that and how good it looks. Then he gets into how it prints at 2400 or whatever and I ask to pull up the tech specs. They add up the dpi of all four colors to get that number (600x4=2400) and then I inform him that's not how it works. I told him if that's the case then the 6c job we just did is 14400. Then I ask how many made up numbers should add for the Aqueous coating?
They serve a purpose, to drag down the quality of printing. Some people are fine with it, some people know that quality costs money.
our copier does not like solid blues and greys
ours doesn't like paper...
Just like our presses.
Quote from: Farabomb on January 19, 2016, 12:20:55 PMI screw with my friend that services copiers all the time. I let him go on his little chest puffing exercise about their newest machine and how it does this and that and how good it looks. Then he gets into how it prints at 2400 or whatever and I ask to pull up the tech specs. They add up the dpi of all four colors to get that number (600x4=2400) and then I inform him that's not how it works. I told him if that's the case then the 6c job we just did is 14400. Then I ask how many made up numbers should add for the Aqueous coating?
They serve a purpose, to drag down the quality of printing. Some people are fine with it, some people know that quality costs money.
You really are missing the benefits of digital printing if you think it is just to drag down the price of printing. You can get very good quality, pleasing colours and constant colour with a good digital machine without paying to have your small job plated and put on press. Would also love to see a press handle the variable data. There are DI machines, but they do not seem to be well received for many print shops (at least in our area). Jobs can look good on a digital unit, sure a press can go that much better, but its not always enough better to warrant the higher price tag for smaller jobs.
Digital is the future it is flexible and ever expanding. Units out right now with 5th colour stations for spot gloss, silver or gold. This will eventually trickle down to more mid range production machines giving even more flexibility and ease of getting out a great looking job for much cheaper on short run jobs. Digital cannot compete price wise with large runs, but for short runs it does not make economic sense to go to press (not talking about the iGens and the like). They all have their place and uses.
I know there is a place for digital, that's why there is one on the other side of the wall here. They have their place and for some a lot of customers it's a perfect fit. I used to run a DI and the quality was good but it was a pain in the ass.
we run an imagepress c6000 here. Its kind of like a fat chick who sexes really well, i mean, im not proud of being a copy jockey but it produces very nice prints once you get the shit figured out, and it makes me feel like a rockstar. thanks to ever-evolving job duties and union reclassification, i am probably the highest paid copy operator in the US, never mind the skillz i was hired on.
that canon is 6 years old, we are getting a new production ricoh in here next month. It took me a while to adapt to the canon, but i think ive had really good luck with it. Not sure what to expect from the ricoh unit, preparing for the worst...
Quote from: Farabomb on January 19, 2016, 02:17:19 PMI know there is a place for digital, that's why there is one on the other side of the wall here. They have their place and for some a lot of customers it's a perfect fit. I used to run a DI and the quality was good but it was a pain in the ass.
That is why we never jumped at a DI. Heard nothing but problems with them. That was a few years ago, not sure what has been improved since then.
We're starting to lose work to a nearby shop that put in one of those 20x29" HP Indigo models. I knew it was gonna happen, not sure why the Mgmt here is so shocked. :rolleyes:
Because their head is a permanent resident in their colon.
The only way to get conventional offset printing more profitable for short run stuff like business cards and flyers is gang run printing. The quality surely won't be the best but usually 99% of the customers can accept this because it's cheap. Is anybody doing gang run printing here, by the way?
Quote from: Made in Taiwan on January 26, 2016, 05:00:59 AMThe only way to get conventional offset printing more profitable for short run stuff like business cards and flyers is gang run printing. The quality surely won't be the best but usually 99% of the customers can accept this because it's cheap. Is anybody doing gang run printing here, by the way?
We print a lot of plastic plant tags. Depending on the die we run up to 244 different tags on a 244 position die on a 40 inch sheet, printed face & flip side.
Gang run for small stuff is typically more hassle than it's worth, due to scheduling. Good luck getting 10 clients that want to print their business card at the same time.
I did have a client who was a designer/broker and offered gang print services to his clients. He would then pre impose on GTO sized 13x19. But a GTO is a small press, for offset. I guess it was easier for him to get them all on board at once. I got no time for that.
Digital presses are perfect for these tiny runs, and you don't have to sweat coordinating a gang run.
Not to mention, all of them need to want the same stock
BAZINGA :winner:
isn't all paper the same?
Whenever someone here asks what kind of paper my answer is always white.
The loader here thinks SWOP means some white old paper.
Quote from: david on January 28, 2016, 07:46:11 AMisn't all paper the same?
It all comes from trees so yes.
The gang run printers here have only around 5 or so different paper stocks for each item and yes, they have plenty of work to feed a whole bunch of big presses. Their delivery time for flyers and business cards is usually within one day, maximum two days, if you need additional services like folding etc. But Taiwan is a small island, so for them, work might be easier to get.
Quote from: Slappy on January 28, 2016, 05:20:32 PMQuote from: david on January 28, 2016, 07:46:11 AMisn't all paper the same?
#AllPaperMatters
pure white, blue whites, and cream whites. we're all pink on the inside.
Related story. The first shop I worked at there were 4 people in prepress and 3 workers. The 4th was the boss's son so he'd be surfing all day and throwing a nerf ball at us from time to time. So it was me the FNG, one quiet dude and another that spent all his free time there looking at craigslist at the hooker ads.
The quiet dude happened to be a swinger with his wife so mondays were story day. Since QG lived an hour and a half away he finally found a new shop closer to his house so he gave his 2 weeks. While we lamented the loss of story day we decided that we are throwing him a going away party... at the local shit pit strip club. This place was located in a old bowling alley right next to the GSP. If you're ever in Jersey rolling up to the Union toll look to the left and you'll see a RV parked behind a building. That's the club and god knows what goes down in that RV. One of the girls was arrested for having a severed human hand that she got from one of the regulars. I move over to the left lane just in case some of the weapons grade VD happens to be airborne.
You can't serve booze and be all nude in NJ. You can bring in coolers full of booze but that can't serve it. This place has a liquor store in the parking lot, convenient. So it's quitting time on his last day and everyone heads to the shitpit. Since I work overlap I still have 2 more hours to go. I'm debating actually going, strip clubs aren't my thing and I have the internet. Then I get a call from the brotherboss saying I have to get down there, everyone is asking where I am. Fuckit, might as well. I pay my $20 to get crabs and go in. We have basically taken over most of the place so I place my ass in pervert's row and grab a beer. This place is dark for a reason, this is not top shelf local talent. More like bush league than the majors. I'm 2 or 3 beers in when the next dancer comes out. She's a not half bad looking sista and like a good stripper makes a bee line to our drunk mess.
So were sitting there and she starts gyrating her ladybits in our general direction and quiet guy looks over and starts staring. Everything looked proper, nothing out of the ordinary but he's entranced. I open another beer for him and hand it to him and it breaks the spell... kinda. Beer in hand he's back in Medusa's gaze frozen. I finally ask him what the fuck is so interesting up there. He turns to me and wipers "we really are all pink inside". I loose it, the girl overhears it and starts laughing. This has earned him a private dance with her on me.
Prepressers are a weird bunch.
(https://i.imgflip.com/y9ls5.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/y9ls5)
Can someone tell me the difference between no color management
and adobe color management, when sending to copiers?
I see a pretty big difference in the 2 when I send to our Xante
According to Adobe:
What is a color management system?
Color-matching problems result from various devices and software using different color spaces. One solution is to have a system that interprets and translates color accurately between devices. A color management system (CMS) compares the color space in which a color was created to the color space in which the same color will be output, and makes the necessary adjustments to represent the color as consistently as possible among different devices.
A color management system translates colors with the help of color profiles. A profile is a mathematical description of a device's color space. For example, a scanner profile tells a color management system how your scanner "sees" colors. Adobe color management uses ICC profiles, a format defined by the International Color Consortium (ICC) as a cross-platform standard.
Because no single color-translation method is ideal for all types of graphics, a color management system provides a choice of rendering intents, or translation methods, so that you can apply a method appropriate to a particular graphics element. For example, a color translation method that preserves correct relationships among colors in a wildlife photograph may alter the colors in a logo containing flat tints of color.
Note: Don't confuse color management with color correction. A color management system won't correct an image that was saved with tonal or color balance problems. It provides an environment where you can evaluate images reliably in the context of your final output.
Do you need color management?
Without a color management system, your color specifications are device-dependent. You might not need color management if your production process is tightly controlled for one medium only. For example, you or your print service provider can tailor CMYK images and specify color values for a known, specific set of printing conditions.
The value of color management increases when you have more variables in your production process. Color management is recommended if you anticipate reusing color graphics for print and online media, using various kinds of devices within a single medium (such as different printing presses), or if you manage multiple workstations.
You will benefit from a color management system if you need to accomplish any of the following:
Get predictable and consistent color output on multiple output devices including color separations, your desktop printer, and your monitor. Color management is especially useful for adjusting color for devices with a relatively limited gamut, such as a four-color process printing press.
Accurately soft-proof (preview) a color document on your monitor by making it simulate a specific output device. (Soft-proofing is subject to the limitations of monitor display, and other factors such as room lighting conditions.)
Accurately evaluate and consistently incorporate color graphics from many different sources if they also use color management, and even in some cases if they don't.
Send color documents to different output devices and media without having to manually adjust colors in documents or original graphics. This is valuable when creating images that will eventually be used both in print and online.
Print color correctly to an unknown color output device; for example, you could store a document online for consistently reproducible on‑demand color printing anywhere in the world.
Thanks Joe, whew!
I just found this huge color difference on our Xante Envelope copier
It's a thorn in my side :laugh:
Ilumina? I schooled the Sales Twerps early on not to expect much in the way of consistency. A lot of what happens depends so heavily on the stock and that is such a crapshoot based on what the paper house spits out that week. Sorry, it's a copier with a passable feed system. If they want faster/more predictable then go iJet or something similar.
I accidentally found that sending to Xante using Acrobat Color management has better color than no color management
still experimenting, but this is interesting.