I work for a BTTBP company (behind the times book printing). I just heard we are finally going to transition to CTP, which is a big change that gives me a lot of anxiety, especially since I know the company managers aren't going to do any research beforehand (as if they could even comprehend).
My question is, what were the biggest obstacles others on this forum encountered during their transition from FTP to CTP? What do you most wish you knew ahead of time that you were never told? (the sales people paint a picture that is all too rosy).
I apologize, but I don't know any details about what systems/equipment we will be getting.
Thanks for the replies and I hope this topic isn't too painfully basic for everyone.
If possible go see a demo of the machine you are thinking of purchasing. Hopefully one that is in actual production. Don't believe what the sales people tell you. If they tell you it will do 50 plates an hour count on it only being able to do 25. Also make sure you understand the maintenance and upkeep of the processor and chemistry. It's almost always a surprise at how much work in can be if you don't get it right. And make sure it is installed in a CLEAN and climate controlled environment.
My biggest issue was with old legacy film. If you are currently imaging film to use for plate making in a frame then you are good.
If you are step and repeating jobs and all you have is film then you will have a bit of a challenge getting electronic files from your customers or having the film copy dot scanned so you can use them with your CTP system.
Good luck
oh and ditto what Joe said.
Joe hit it right on the head... listen to him.
G... first off, I like your avatar! Second... also good advice.
Quote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on February 26, 2008, 11:05:15 AMJoe hit it right on the head... listen to him.
G... first off, I like your avatar!
Thought you might :wink:
Thanks for the fast replies!
Quote from: Joe link=topic=1212.msg14667#msg14667 date=1204044214make sure it is installed in a CLEAN and climate controlled environment.
I guess were screwed -- we work in a f'n barn! But, just out of curiosity, what sort of climate is necessary?
I've worked in two shops during their transition to CTP.
We imaged a lot of plates every day (I can't recall the amount) and yes, the maintenance factor was sort of a drag. Sometimes I'd have to change the chemistry after only one week of use, and there's really no warning (at least not with the CTP imager we had) - when the chemistry goes, it's gone, and everything stops for 90 minutes until the machine is cleaned, refilled, and calibrated. I've had pressmen yell at me because of this (yawn).
But it sure beats stripping and manually burning plates.
BTTBP...lol. What makes it even funnier is the last shop I worked in was so "BTT" and the company initials are/were "BP".
Quote from: prepress is sexy on February 26, 2008, 11:19:45 AMThanks for the fast replies!
Quote from: Joe link=topic=1212.msg14667#msg14667 date=1204044214make sure it is installed in a CLEAN and climate controlled environment.
I guess were screwed -- we work in a f'n barn! But, just out of curiosity, what sort of climate is necessary?
Pristine. Almost clean room quality. No dust can float, it can get in the drum and or lens and cause problems. Humidity and temp are just as important. Your sales moron should have all that info.
Yea humidity and temp is important especially if you have a machine that removes slip sheets.
We used to keep the humidity around 40% and the heat at around 70.
Although we've had times where the heat/air/humidity unit took a dump and we were still banging out plates in High heat and low humidity.
Quote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on February 26, 2008, 11:28:47 AMQuote from: prepress is sexy on February 26, 2008, 11:19:45 AMThanks for the fast replies!
Quote from: Joe link=topic=1212.msg14667#msg14667 date=1204044214make sure it is installed in a CLEAN and climate controlled environment.
I guess were screwed -- we work in a f'n barn! But, just out of curiosity, what sort of climate is necessary?
Pristine. Almost clean room quality. No dust can float, it can get in the drum and or lens and cause problems. Humidity and temp are just as important. Your sales moron should have all that info.
Ditto...you (and the company you work for) will regret it if you don't.
As far as the climate...our CTP will shut down and not run if it gets too hot in the room. (86 degrees if I remember correctly.)
Edit: That temp is the max. It's not recommended to run it at that temp. They recommend in the 68 - 72 degree range.
Oh, and if you are considering an Auto-loader for your CTP, make sure it works. 2 of the last 3 I have worked on with auto-loaders did not work worth a shit. Constantly jamming and making life difficult. In my opinion... get a manual feeder.
Quote from: DigitalCrapShoveler on February 26, 2008, 11:28:47 AMQuote from: prepress is sexy on February 26, 2008, 11:19:45 AMThanks for the fast replies!
Quote from: Joe on February 26, 2008, 10:43:34 AMmake sure it is installed in a CLEAN and climate controlled environment.
I guess were screwed -- we work in a f'n barn! But, just out of curiosity, what sort of climate is necessary?
Pristine. Almost clean room quality. No dust can float, it can get in the drum and or lens and cause problems. Humidity and temp are just as important. Your sales moron should have all that info.
Can not agree enough on this, As some one who sometimes get called out to customer sites to clean optics, keeping a system / room clean is advisable. Was at one site recently, where whole CTP system was covered in about 2mm of press dust, from presses outside the door which gets into everything. Also heard of people smoking when putting plates in which is also not advisable. It amazes me sometimes that, people pay X amount for a CTP system, but then begrudge keeping it in a clean stable room.
Quote from: prepress is sexy on February 26, 2008, 10:18:35 AMI work for a BTTBP company (behind the times book printing). I just heard we are finally going to transition to CTP, which is a big change that gives me a lot of anxiety, especially since I know the company managers aren't going to do any research beforehand (as if they could even comprehend).
My question is, what were the biggest obstacles others on this forum encountered during their transition from FTP to CTP? What do you most wish you knew ahead of time that you were never told? (the sales people paint a picture that is all too rosy).
I apologize, but I don't know any details about what systems/equipment we will be getting.
Thanks for the replies and I hope this topic isn't too painfully basic for everyone.
As others have said. get a demo, take some of your own jobs, and watch them output to plate. One thing to bear in mind is Proofing, make sure you have some kind of Proofing system, Pref ROOM proofing to avoid potential expensive mistakes
DUHHHH, yes, proofing system a MUST!!! How did we forget that?
Re: the pristine, clean room perfection blah blah:
Ask for it, but don't be surprised when you don't get it. It's important, but seldom actually happens in the real world. (Shhhh. Don't tell anybody I said this.)
All computer equipment has fans, takes in dirt and spews it out. Just another dirty little secret.
Another subject: The bosses need patience, to see that operators are properly trained to do what the equipment is meant to do, and do it well. Prepress people learning new technology is infinitely preferable to computer people trying to learn prepress.
Expect some vigorous and ongoing discussion on this, Gutnbg. And no, don't feel embarrassed by the "basic" nature of the questions. Feel smart because you've waved the flag here!
Firstly, evaluate...then re-evaluate. If you can convince the boss[es], that a little time is needed to assess properly beforehand, then you've achieved a very important thing. Try and talk to users away from their vendors, even if it means phoning/calling later. Sometimes they'll be more forthcoming then. Sometimes it's just little niggly stuff, but...no technology's perfect, and it may be what you go with.
Violet vs. Thermal. Sheesh! this debate's still alive I believe, though dead for me. [we went "new" violet in 12/06]. New violet, [30mWatt+] is clean environmentally, pretty easy to maintain, and has an upgrade path to chemistry-free. When we were assessing CTP, I spoke to a couple of book pubs here who were more than happy with violet. It's inherently fast. IMHO, ignore jibes at violet in regards to quality/resolution. We run, sometimes, if the job warrants it, CoRes screening at 300 lpi. No worries.
Make sure you are aware of the differences between old violet, [5 mWatt silver halide-based], and new violet, [photopolymer]. This will stop the wool being pulled over your eyes at some point.
I'll stop for now...
Link below FYI. [sorry about the long URL. Not familiar with the magic "shortener"; which I think exists somewhere..]
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:moZj3kW2i2IJ:printwareinc.com/PDF/Future%2520is%2520Violet.pdf+violet+ctp+tribute&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=au
:embarrassed: :embarrassed: It's very early in the morning here...It's "prepress is sexy" I should be yada'ing to. Not Gutnbg. Imagine how I'm gonna be at work today... :rolleyes:
Quote from: hagar_uk on February 26, 2008, 01:00:29 PMQuote from: prepress is sexy on February 26, 2008, 10:18:35 AMPref ROOM proofing to avoid potential expensive mistakes
Strangely, we are on ROOM proofing now, but are moving to new workflow software that requires ripping with each output. I asked that sales/support person for the new software how we can know the proofs will match the final output and he told me it was because we are using the same JDF file and RIP each time. That wasn't real reassuring to me.
love this thread
i just got...<drumm roll> a budget to go ctp!!!!! holy cow! its taken me 8 years!!!
but.....<aint there always a but>
i have a small budget.....nothing personal :tongue:
i'm very sold on the azura plate, agfa will chuck in a gummer unit, so now all i have to do is find that kicking screen 8600 that does the job, for less than the price of a cup of coffee......easy huh!
so, since a dealer i know tells me in the uk there's a company making wash-out units for the fuji pRO-T plate, i've got in touch <and met> fuji uk marketing and sales director <name hidden to protect sales person> with a view to looking at that as a solution
which will put me in line with the azura <agfa> plate as regards a process to clean out prior to press - let the plate price haggling begin :cheesy:
so - for anyone looking at new ctp, processless is indeed a very big issue
I am not involved, but very rarely in plate making anymore. They keep me in back, way back. We got all the Azura stuff, including the Gummer, and, ummm, we don't use it. I am not exactly sure why, but I know there are issues. I will talk to my Manager next time I go smoke. He can be very archaic in his views, so it might be a matter of his ignorance. Just for fun... does anyone else run Azura plates, do they work consistently, when do they go blind, do they work?
My CTP isn't in a very clean room. I do however have a filter system that keeps the inside of the platesetter clean and dust free. I just had a 6 month PM and the guy said it didn't even need cleaning. The main thing is to keep the room as clean as you can and to change the filters when needed.
Quote from: frailer on February 26, 2008, 02:38:39 PMExpect some vigorous and ongoing discussion on this, Gutnbg....
How could I not? ;)
No, the obvious thing is that for ANY computer stuff to run right, you need a clean environment. The problem is, in the real world "clean" is a relative term.
I don't really understand this, because all the higher-ups have decided to make a HUGE investment, if they want to go to CTP. Ours did the same as everybody else (probably...er, I HOPE so!), and tried to make the prepress area as clean as humanly possible. Emphasis on the no-smoking rule, positive air flow (when you open the doors, air goes out, not in), etc. But then you end up with goofy stuff like computers sitting on or at least near the floor; computer maintenance, as far as keeping the fans clean etc., gets forgotten; and then the bigwigs come through with potential customers to show off the area while somebody is cursing that very equipment because there is something they don't understand about it.
Congratulations, Beermonster! Two things: Plan ahead, and exercise patience. The learning curve won't be bad at all; hopefully you'll hit the ground running.
CTP is one of the best things to ever happen to us, workflow-wise. No more missed burns, no Newton rings, dots (or spots) are repeatable...that alone makes it great. Also, they ARE going to make an effort to make this a clean room, just because the vendor will explain it to them in term
$ they under
$tand. That means fewer and smaller dust bunnies, as long as you're into cleaning up. (Our department didn't want the maintenance dept. (janitorial) to come in here, so we sweep, mop, and sometimes wax our own floors every week. It still pays the same.)
As for the climate control: They will set it at 70-72 degrees, but make sure you have a sweater or jacket year round. I've been dressing with a T-Shirt and a long-sleeve shirt over it because I never know. What's cool to the computer might be frostbite to me; or it might be very comfortable, in which case I can lose the long sleeves.
Yes, I had to throw that gauntlet, just so this didn't sound like a thread that sells something. Anybody have anything to add?
*
P.S. Frailer, I saw your note too late that you were actually talking to prepress-is-sexy, but I was still quite willing and (I think) able to start something here.
Quote from: beermonster on February 27, 2008, 09:43:31 AMlove this thread
i just got...<drumm roll> a budget to go ctp!!!!! holy cow! its taken me 8 years!!!
but.....<aint there always a but>
i have a small budget.....nothing personal :tongue:
i'm very sold on the azura plate, agfa will chuck in a gummer unit, so now all i have to do is find that kicking screen 8600 that does the job, for less than the price of a cup of coffee......easy huh!
so, since a dealer i know tells me in the uk there's a company making wash-out units for the fuji pRO-T plate, i've got in touch <and met> fuji uk marketing and sales director <name hidden to protect sales person> with a view to looking at that as a solution
which will put me in line with the azura <agfa> plate as regards a process to clean out prior to press - let the plate price haggling begin :cheesy:
so - for anyone looking at new ctp, processless is indeed a very big issue
Congrats beer. That CTP will pay for itself in no time with just the savings of not having to buy film. Your higher ups will wonder why they didn't do this years earlier. :laugh:
Quote from: Gutnbg on February 27, 2008, 10:24:28 AMQuote from: frailer on February 26, 2008, 02:38:39 PMExpect some vigorous and ongoing discussion on this, Gutnbg....
* P.S. Frailer, I saw your note too late that you were actually talking to prepress-is-sexy, but I was still quite willing and (I think) able to start something here.
LOL, Gutnbg. We seem to trip over each other lately. :laugh: I did wake up by the time I got to work. Shall be conversing with you again as we are now at 298 members. :laugh: :laugh:
LOL.
300 VER-R-R-RY soon. I'm a little scared. :D
...make that 299...
prepare to strike up the band!
:band:
Our band would be you and Earendil. So get ready.
Don't forget banjo (um,um,um...dang?)
and drums (beermonster?)
Oh yeah. Get ready frailer and beer.
I play a pretty mean triangle...
Quote from: Joe on February 27, 2008, 02:09:54 PMOur band would be you and Earendil. So get ready.
How many drummers does it take to change a light bulb?
(Yell) ONE - TWO - THREE - FOUR!
uh-oh,
here we go again
:wink:
Quote from: born2print on February 27, 2008, 02:49:55 PMuh-oh,
here we go again
:wink:
Oh yeah.... sorry, as a drummer, my memory is almost as short as my attention span.
and here is the 300th victim err umm member. motionprinting
(http://www.websmileys.com/sm/party/fest44.gif)
(http://www.mchenrycountyblog.com/uploaded_images/Spy-vs-Spy-without-bombs-775529.jpg)
Welcome, Motionprinting!
hell yeah - i'll have a go on the pots
i have as much rhythm as a cow falling down some stairs, but hell - i'll give it a go!
Realised after skimming back over this thread that I probably caused a major jack. :embarrassed: Post back here and let us know how you are progressing, prepress is sexy. Keep bouncing off us as you go through "the process" of evaluation/decision. It's quite stressful.