Fonts and the legal standpoint

[beermonster]

would someone clear up once and for all the legal standpoint on the supply of fonts within a job?

from my point of view - as i've always known it - you are allowed to supply fonts for a "production" environment/output device. I am allowed to copy to use for the project and archive for future use (a repeat of the job) only - and NOT for use in anything else

I have a customer who refuses to supply fonts - saying its illegal. I've instructed them to ensure that all fonts are outlined.

Now here's the thing - if they DO NOT outline the fonts and create a pdf with the fonts embedded - then supply me that pdf - is that then breaking the law?

put me right or wrong - i'll take it.

[Joe]

The PDF with the fonts embedded is perfectly legal.

I think technically, to the letter of the law, down to brass tacks, no holds barred, that it is illegal for them to send you the fonts. I've never heard of the font police showing up to enforce it though.

[jezza]

I thought beermonsters view was correct

[doubting_thomas]

Don't forget that some EULA's state that illegal to Outline their fonts, too. I'm
sure you and your clients have time to read up on your collections   

[Joe]

I guess it depends on the EULA of the font manufacturer. From Adobe's point of view:



From that it sounds like the provider can only use the font if they have a license for it too.

[hotmetal]

From that it sounds like the provider can only use the font if they have a license for it too.

Correct. If your shop owns the font, you may download the client's copy solely for output purposes if needed to resolve version conflicts. If you don't own a font you can't put it on your equipment, servers, workstations, rips, whatever, period.

As I tell people who start screaming at me over this, I don't write the software licenses and I don't write the copyright and patent laws. If you don't like Adobe's position on stealing their software, buy enough Adobe stock to force a change in the rules at the next stockholders meeting. Just stand up and say "I think we should let people steal our stuff." If you don't like the copyright and patent laws, buy yourself enough Senators and Representatives and Supreme Court Justices and have the laws changed to your liking. This may take a while.

Meanwhile, as far as I know, when the Business Software Alliance audits companies, including printing companies, they have up until now left the font issue alone. Personally, I would advise owning at the very least a license to the current Adobe library. Here's why:  when that rush job comes in and the client only included some of the fonts, or all the screen fonts but only half the printer fonts, or they've asked for a change from bold to black without giving you the black weight, you aren't stuck with having to harass the client to send you what you need.

and you get to just do your job in a professional manner.

[Joe]

Sheesh...no one said they wanted to pull an armed robbery on Adobe.

Okay...you get the Adobe library license. So what do you do when you need a font by Linotype or some other font foundry? They've never forced the font issue because there is no way every printer can afford to buy the license to every font ever created.

[beermonster]

thats been my point as well joe

our customer did once say we'd have to buy the fonts - i said ok - give me the money and i'll attempt to purchase the adobe, linotype. ITC - all of em - just so we're covered. Of course this was turned down.......

I only have this problem with publishing companies - no-one else at all - period.

so - i'll take a pdf for this theen - if thats legal - all bases covered.

thanks for the info folks

[David]

so - i'll take a pdf for this then - if thats legal - all bases covered

I'm calling the cops...

where the hell is my phone...

anyone know the number for 911?


 

[DCurry]

anyone know the number for 911?

I can't find the eleven on my phone!

[beermonster]

bloody splitters!

jeez the font ninjas are at the frigin door now arrrggghhhh!!!!!!!!

[Gutnbg]

bloody splitters!

jeez the font ninjas are at the frigin door now arrrggghhhh!!!!!!!!

Tie up the windows! Board up the hatches! Batten down the mizzen mast! Run for your lives! Bank holiday!

Actually beermonster, I thought you described the rules of fair use with your first post (sort of).
You can use the customer fonts to do that one job, then you pitch 'em.

I think more often than not, IRL people will organize their customer fonts and use them only for that customer, assuming repeat business. Plus a lot of printers own the major libraries already and only have to worry about those weird fonts the customer decided to dress up their doc with.

[beermonster]

well every time we work with publishers they will only supply a pdf - which is not always best for me at all. they simply refuse to send fonts ???

somehow it must contravene their licenses i guess. i argued we need the fonts to produce the job, and if they dont hold the correct licenses they themselves hold illegal fonts....this suggestion did not go down well however.....

[born2print]

It's my "understanding" that we all break the law, everyday, and that you are not allowed to "borrow" a font ever, for anything, no matter who or why. But obviously, the trade had a different idea because we all have done it for years, we even archive the borrowed fonts right?

[beermonster]

so from your point of view we should ALL have EVERY single font EVER created. I dont believe thats correct.

A font is allowed to be supplied to "an output" device - be that a digital press, a poster printer, litho - whatever. It remains their property and is not allowed to be used in anything other than their job. Archiving is allowed only on the basis of repeat business. Any other use of that font breaches legal ownership and is illegal. It's not borrowing - its using an element within the project to produce an end product.

thats the way i know it to be anyway.