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General Category => General Prepress => Topic started by: Greg_Firestone on October 25, 2011, 03:12:29 PM

Title: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Greg_Firestone on October 25, 2011, 03:12:29 PM
Hi all,

I'm currently working on a new preflight program designed for small and medium size publishers and printers. I'm looking for more pilot testers to provide user feedback which translates to "who wants to use the software for free as long as they'll give me feedback". I want to know what you like, what you don't like, what can we improve, etc.

It's a cloud-based solution so there's no software to install. All you need is Adobe Flash 10.0 or higher and Acrobat 9.0 or later (Acrobat Reader is fine). It imports any PDF, EPS, PS, JPG or TIFF and outputs PDF/X. It automatically fixes a ton of items including unwanted 4C black text and vector objects, over-inking problems, overprint issues, incorrect colorspaces, and more.

If you like to tinker with 100's of settings (which is probably most of the people on this forum), you might be disappointed because most of those settings are hidden from the end user. The software has preset job options designed for North American newspaper and commercial workflows. We plan on adding settings for additional geographical regions in the future.

If your interested in testing, drop me a PM and I'll provide you access. It's free to use, no strings or hidden sales agenda. I'm just looking for useful product feedback.

Regards,
Greg
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: david on October 25, 2011, 03:15:58 PM
does it do a preflight on a pdf without any fixes?
We like to tell people what they have wrong in the file, not just blindly fix things for them.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: delooch on October 25, 2011, 03:19:21 PM
Hello, would anyone like to participate in having their own jobs replaced by a piece of software? its free! maybe try offering ice to the eskimos?
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Greg_Firestone on October 25, 2011, 03:21:41 PM
Hi David,

It automatically performs fixes. There are logs which indicate the offending items so you could just discard the output file and use the logs to explain to someone what was wrong/needs to be fixed.

If more people are interested in preflight only (without automatic correction), it's something we can look into offering. We initially felt there was more value to the software if it automatically corrected files but if users want preflight only, we should definitely implement it.

Regards,
Greg
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Greg_Firestone on October 25, 2011, 03:31:58 PM

Hello, would anyone like to participate in having their own jobs replaced by a piece of software? its free!


I appreciate the honest reply. I suppose you could look at any software that fixes files in a similar manner: Pistop, Apogee, etc. The last thing any of us want is for the software to replace a person. I don't think it can/will. It's just a software tool for you to use.

Greg

Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: t-pat on October 25, 2011, 03:35:56 PM
I wouldn't worry about it, if your customers are like mine, there's no way software will be able to "fix" most of what's wrong with their files. It sounds like a good tool but not magic.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: rickself on October 25, 2011, 03:37:07 PM
Good prepress requires interaction. Even Pitstop, as good as it is, requires interaction.
I had a boss once that thought all you do is load a file and hit print. I appreciate your effort but telling someone with 25 years of prepress experience that one program will do all is another cloud.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: delooch on October 25, 2011, 03:42:30 PM
human eyes & experience bro.  then again, my shop of 10 employees has been trimmed to a staff of 2, thanks to the digital age. i may have reservations.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: rickself on October 25, 2011, 03:50:33 PM
Automatic preflight is akin to OCR scanning of pages of text. You still have to go back through and double check. I'm not burning any plates without manually going through my files. It just doesn't make good sense or cents to drop any file into a drop box and expect good results. Keeping clients is hard enough in this competitive business.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: DigitalCrapShoveler on October 25, 2011, 03:53:27 PM
If I said anything, it would just be a repeat of the above comments, which I totally agree with. Maybe a graphic design forum would be a better place to test this out. Designers have no clue how to compose a proper PDF, even when they are told... and they LOVE automatic shit. Magic Wand Tool anyone?
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Greg_Firestone on October 25, 2011, 03:58:28 PM

Good prepress requires interaction. Even Pitstop, as good as it is, requires interaction.
I had a boss once that thought all you do is load a file and hit print. I appreciate your effort but telling someone with 25 years of prepress experience that one program will do all is another cloud.


Hi Rickself,

I agree with everything you say. I would never bill this as a magic program that fixes every problem out there. It's just another application out there to help fix files. The folks on this forum are pretty knowledgable and very good at trouble-shooting files. I've visited some small shops and newspapers which simply don't have resources to fix difficult problems files - be it technical expertise or budgets for software. In the end they end up rasterzing PDFs in Photoshop or trying to get the original source files (if they can). They do what they can with the tools at their disposal. This is just another option, but by no means an solution to every issue.

Greg

Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: rickself on October 25, 2011, 04:06:08 PM

If I said anything, it would just be a repeat of the above comments, which I totally agree with. Maybe a graphic design forum would be a better place to test this out. Designers have no clue how to compose a proper PDF, even when they are told... and they LOVE automatic shit. Magic Wand Tool anyone?

Agreed. Graphic Design Forum will eat up something like this. Any way that deziners can get me a better, cleaner file is a plus.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: born2print on October 25, 2011, 04:11:01 PM


Good prepress requires interaction. Even Pitstop, as good as it is, requires interaction.
I had a boss once that thought all you do is load a file and hit print. I appreciate your effort but telling someone with 25 years of prepress experience that one program will do all is another cloud.


Hi Rickself,

I agree with everything you say. I would never bill this as a magic program that fixes every problem out there. It's just another application out there to help fix files. The folks on this forum are pretty knowledgable and very good at trouble-shooting files. I've visited some small shops and newspapers which simply don't have resources to fix difficult problems files - be it technical expertise or budgets for software. In the end they end up rasterzing PDFs in Photoshop or trying to get the original source files (if they can). They do what they can with the tools at their disposal. This is just another option, but by no means an solution to every issue.

Greg
Thanks for thinking of us Greg. This may also appeal to CSRs that preflight?
Stop laughing! We have a few that try at least!
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: delooch on October 25, 2011, 04:36:23 PM


If I said anything, it would just be a repeat of the above comments, which I totally agree with. Maybe a graphic design forum would be a better place to test this out. Designers have no clue how to compose a proper PDF, even when they are told... and they LOVE automatic shit. Magic Wand Tool anyone?

Agreed. Graphic Design Forum will eat up something like this. Any way that deziners can get me a better, cleaner file is a plus.


true. not to poo-poo on new ideas, but im the last person who touches the file between submission and RIP. trusting my output to a piece of software that is supposed to work correctly.. and if it doesnt, its my ass they are coming after, not the software vendor. I agree with the other posts, that maybe in a designers hands this would be more useful.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Greg_Firestone on October 25, 2011, 04:48:18 PM
Quote
Agreed. Graphic Design Forum will eat up something like this. Any way that deziners can get me a better, cleaner file is a plus.


Unfortunately Graphic Designers have gotten so used to printers like you and delooch fixing their jobs they've settled on the limited amount of prepress knowledge they have. I spoke to one small publisher who sends out his monthly newsletter to a local web printer. He had no interest in testing the software. I asked why and his response was that the printer takes care of all of his files. He then added that he doesn't even pay extra for this because the printer wants to keep this business. I can't blame him for not wanting to try the software.

I've actually spoken with a few agencies and designers but there hasn't been much interest. Without trying to generalize, designers don't really want to hear about designing files properly or technical limitations (e.g. 5 pt white serif type of a 4 color background). I think some of this is instilled during their education. Very little effort is placed on designing for print. I've been in contact with some graphic design programs and they are not very responsive. One told me printing is "slippery technology" and said she focuses the curriculum on print design and web design. I'm tried to explain how lithography hasn't changed since 1796 but it was pointless.

Greg
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: t-pat on October 25, 2011, 04:52:42 PM
and that, my friends, is why it is what it is.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Farabomb on October 25, 2011, 05:06:34 PM
Greg, I think you just explained how printing shot itself in the foot. When the transition from film to CTP came we gave Preress away probably becasue they didn't know what to charge. Now we have cuntomers (I do that constantly and for this post I'm leaving it in) that don't care if the files are shit. We gave it away and can't get it back. Now you have manic prepressers fixing all sorts of crap that's not chargeable and when the shit hits the fan, guess who's fault it is?

Owners lack the sack to tell the customers we need new files becasue they don't want to loose the work to the shop down the street that's loosing their shirt as well. Maybe the few good places will survive this blight, maybe printing will go the way of the mechanical typewriter. That would be sad becasue it's an art.

I have 2 different kinds of preflight here but in neither do I want fixes automatically made. Each shop does things their way for whatever reason so there is no single solution for every shop. I just want accurate reporting of the newest turd to come across my desk so I can choose what type of polish on it. You ever have a version that does that, I'll give it a crack. Software will never replace a human.

P.S. Thank you t-pat for summing up my verbose post into one f'n line.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: gnubler on October 25, 2011, 05:08:08 PM
Cloud-based preflight?

What happens if the internet kicks out? It happens once in a while.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: DigitalCrapShoveler on October 25, 2011, 05:09:56 PM

Quote
Agreed. Graphic Design Forum will eat up something like this. Any way that deziners can get me a better, cleaner file is a plus.


Unfortunately Graphic Designers have gotten so used to printers like you and delooch fixing their jobs they've settled on the limited amount of prepress knowledge they have. I spoke to one small publisher who sends out his monthly newsletter to a local web printer. He had no interest in testing the software. I asked why and his response was that the printer takes care of all of his files. He then added that he doesn't even pay extra for this because the printer wants to keep this business. I can't blame him for not wanting to try the software.

I've actually spoken with a few agencies and designers but there hasn't been much interest. Without trying to generalize, designers don't really want to hear about designing files properly or technical limitations (e.g. 5 pt white serif type of a 4 color background). I think some of this is instilled during their education. Very little effort is placed on designing for print. I've been in contact with some graphic design programs and they are not very responsive. One told me printing is "slippery technology" and said she focuses the curriculum on print design and web design. I'm tried to explain how lithography hasn't changed since 1796 but it was pointless.

Greg


Ask a Prepress guy what he thinks of this. We do all the work and yes, we do charge. Unfortunately, management decides on what to charge based on the original estimate. If the estimate falls short of additional consumables and billable time, often times it is adjusted in the customers favor, JUST to keep the customer. Customers are not learning, they are not adapting, they hardly care. Most of the time we get the short end of the deadline, and expected to do half the work because the lazy desinger decided to wait until the day before his vacation to do the job.

It's unfortunate that desingers do not embrace your software. But to expect them to do anything based off the above statement in red, is a lesson in futility. I shouldn't even have mentioned it. I know better.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: t-pat on October 25, 2011, 05:19:55 PM

P.S. Thank you t-pat for summing up my verbose post into one f'n line.  :laugh:


yeah I'm good like that huh?

And how the f*ck do these lameasses manage to get a vacation after EVERY SINGLE TURDBOMB PROJECT?!?!
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Farabomb on October 25, 2011, 05:21:01 PM
Constant vacation from reality, that's how.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: DigitalCrapShoveler on October 25, 2011, 05:22:29 PM


P.S. Thank you t-pat for summing up my verbose post into one f'n line.  :laugh:


yeah I'm good like that huh?

And how the f*ck do these lameasses manage to get a vacation after EVERY SINGLE TURDBOMB PROJECT?!?!


It's pretty laughable, is it not? I mean... EVERY SINGLE TIME. "Can I get this back in a hurry, I'm going on vacation."
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: t-pat on October 25, 2011, 05:25:05 PM
and then when there are changes, they're at some remote desert island with no internet access, although they seem to be able to use their iphone/ipad just fine. FFS tether your damn laptop.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Farabomb on October 25, 2011, 05:29:43 PM
You think they can grasp the concept of tethering?
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: DigitalCrapShoveler on October 25, 2011, 05:33:39 PM

and then when there are changes, they're at some remote desert island with no internet access, although they seem to be able to use their iphone/ipad just fine. FFS tether your damn laptop.


If it's not that, you get the dip-shit manager or co-worker Sausage, "I'm looking through the files on her desktop, I'm seeing about 2,000 instances of the missing link you requested called, '1.jpg.' Can I just e-mail them all to you when I get home around 10?"
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: t-pat on October 25, 2011, 06:00:16 PM
so anyway back on topic, there seems to be a need for software to educate/punish/rebuke the designer, not fix their crap so they can continue to not care and go on vacation while we try to figure out what new way they mangled their job.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: DigitalCrapShoveler on October 25, 2011, 06:02:20 PM
It really is just as simple as hitting them where it hurts. In the case of a Desinger... NO MORE VACATION FOR YOU!
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: gnubler on October 25, 2011, 06:20:22 PM
Kill them all.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: DigitalCrapShoveler on October 25, 2011, 06:22:23 PM
Soon, my dear, very soon. :wink:
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Joe on October 25, 2011, 06:43:07 PM
Well I'm going to check it out. I've found over the years it's better to keep up with technology to ensure you are qualified to work in the future rather than to hope nothing changes and you'll have a job down the line. I've automated myself out of many jobs but because I try to stay on top of new and emerging technologies I've always been able to stay one step ahead of the grim reaper.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: DigitalCrapShoveler on October 25, 2011, 06:44:47 PM

Well I'm going to check it out. I've found over the years it's better to keep up with technology to ensure you are qualified to work in the future rather than to hope nothing changes and you'll have a job down the line. I've automated myself out of many jobs but because I try to stay on top of new and emerging technologies I've always been able to stay one step ahead of the grim reaper.


Uh-huh.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: gnubler on October 25, 2011, 06:45:57 PM
Maybe Joe has a keylogger on his Mac.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: DigitalCrapShoveler on October 25, 2011, 06:48:34 PM
That didn't even sound like him. All business-like and hopeful for a future. Okay, who killed Joe? It wasn't me, I swear!
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: frailer on October 25, 2011, 06:56:47 PM

Well I'm going to check it out. I've found over the years it's better to keep up with technology to ensure you are qualified to work in the future rather than to hope nothing changes and you'll have a job down the line. I've automated myself out of many jobs but because I try to stay on top of new and emerging technologies I've always been able to stay one step ahead of the grim reaper.


   Amen to that. Have tried the same thing, in my own small-time and modest way. The transition to digi hurt my aging brain, but with the help of the old (ransacked) PPF, and then here, every time I went under I managed to re-surface and gulp air. Call me dramatic, but that's how it was.
When it comes to tech change, I am a seriously dependant personality. But I don't want anyone to be freaked by this.    :laugh:
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: gnubler on October 25, 2011, 09:54:19 PM

That didn't even sound like him. All business-like and hopeful for a future. Okay, who killed Joe? It wasn't me, I swear!


Wasn't me.

There is another naked body under that tiger suit now. :puke:
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: delooch on October 25, 2011, 10:51:32 PM

Well I'm going to check it out. I've found over the years it's better to keep up with technology to ensure you are qualified to work in the future rather than to hope nothing changes and you'll have a job down the line. I've automated myself out of many jobs but because I try to stay on top of new and emerging technologies I've always been able to stay one step ahead of the grim reaper.


although im spewing negative, i agree with keeping up with tech..

my problem with this "solution" is that knucklehead managers, such as the one i had, would subscribe to this type of "one size fits all" bananas, which we all know isnt really practical with all of our collective workflow tweaks. 

who gets crapped on when the press jobs go bad? usually prepress. if your boss can eliminate a couple of self-righteous prepress knuckleheads given the opportunity, he would. mine would have. the problem is that he doesnt know what the F i do. im guessing most of your supervisors dont either.  by the time your laid off, and this fails, things would be so awry it wouldnt matter if they hired you back... 

we did a similar "tech upgrade" to our outgoing postage services a year back. laid off 2 workers, only to hire a totally different dude a year later to run the old equipment when the new crap failed.

perhaps im a bit skeptical...
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: rickself on October 26, 2011, 12:20:09 PM


Well I'm going to check it out. I've found over the years it's better to keep up with technology to ensure you are qualified to work in the future rather than to hope nothing changes and you'll have a job down the line. I've automated myself out of many jobs but because I try to stay on top of new and emerging technologies I've always been able to stay one step ahead of the grim reaper.

perhaps im a bit skeptical...

A skeptic in prepress...imagine that!
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Joe on October 27, 2011, 12:51:38 AM

Hi all,

I'm currently working on a new preflight program designed for small and medium size publishers and printers. I'm looking for more pilot testers to provide user feedback which translates to "who wants to use the software for free as long as they'll give me feedback". I want to know what you like, what you don't like, what can we improve, etc.

It's a cloud-based solution so there's no software to install. All you need is Adobe Flash 10.0 or higher and Acrobat 9.0 or later (Acrobat Reader is fine). It imports any PDF, EPS, PS, JPG or TIFF and outputs PDF/X. It automatically fixes a ton of items including unwanted 4C black text and vector objects, over-inking problems, overprint issues, incorrect colorspaces, and more.

If you like to tinker with 100's of settings (which is probably most of the people on this forum), you might be disappointed because most of those settings are hidden from the end user. The software has preset job options designed for North American newspaper and commercial workflows. We plan on adding settings for additional geographical regions in the future.

If your interested in testing, drop me a PM and I'll provide you access. It's free to use, no strings or hidden sales agenda. I'm just looking for useful product feedback.

Regards,
Greg


OK, had some time so I uploaded 24 pages that originated in the wonderful page layout software called Microsoft Word. Job runs grayscale so all it needed to do was convert everything to gray...which it did. 4 pages were rejected because fonts were not embedded but the others it mad PDF X4 files keeping any transparency live though from Word I'm not sure if that is even possible to have live transparency. Preflight report was thorough. All in all I don't think it's a bad product but...

As others have mentioned it's not clear who is the target audience. As a printer I don't think we would have a lot of use for it as we're not going to have the customer upload the files and then we have to upload them to a remote server, let them process and them download them all over again. I certainly would not feel comfortable recieving those files back and outputting plates without checking them which is pretty much how we operate now. As far as it might be useful for designers, I suppose, but as Greg already mentioned they usually are not receptive to this type of thing. And the good designers probably don't need it and the bad designers probably wouldn't be smart enough to use it.

I know the industry is pushing this type of technology, promising printers PDF files that fly through without the need for human intervention. But how is going to catch wrong dates, pages created at the wrong size, pages not positioned correctly, pages numbers on the wrong side of the page, words misspelled, items missing, etc...? You still need a human for most of that stuff and I've still yet to see a product correctly handle B&W rgb images and convert them to B&W. Yes it will catch some of them but even with Prinergy we still find lots of gray RGB that come out 4 color instead of it converting them to grayscale which is the number one selling point that a salesman will tell you. Oh sure, it will convert them to grayscale based on the amount of RGB in the file. Yeah, it will. Sometimes. What happens when it doesn't? A human being intervenes to fix it.

I do think it works well. I just can't figure out where it might be useful.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: gnubler on October 27, 2011, 01:19:01 AM
Agree with everything Joe said and I appreciate he took the time to test it out.

If all it's good for is for someone to submit print-ready files to a printer, it's not gonna happen. With the level of crap we get and people not even comprehending the concept of bleed after it's been verbally explained to them, they will not go through this process. Why should they care? We, the human printers, are here to make the crap work with the tools on hand.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Greg_Firestone on October 27, 2011, 09:33:36 AM

OK, had some time so I uploaded 24 pages that originated in the wonderful page layout software called Microsoft Word. Job runs grayscale so all it needed to do was convert everything to gray...which it did. 4 pages were rejected because fonts were not embedded but the others it mad PDF X4 files keeping any transparency live though from Word I'm not sure if that is even possible to have live transparency. Preflight report was thorough. All in all I don't think it's a bad product but...

As others have mentioned it's not clear who is the target audience. As a printer I don't think we would have a lot of use for it as we're not going to have the customer upload the files and then we have to upload them to a remote server, let them process and them download them all over again. I certainly would not feel comfortable recieving those files back and outputting plates without checking them which is pretty much how we operate now. As far as it might be useful for designers, I suppose, but as Greg already mentioned they usually are not receptive to this type of thing. And the good designers probably don't need it and the bad designers probably wouldn't be smart enough to use it.

I know the industry is pushing this type of technology, promising printers PDF files that fly through without the need for human intervention. But how is going to catch wrong dates, pages created at the wrong size, pages not positioned correctly, pages numbers on the wrong side of the page, words misspelled, items missing, etc...? You still need a human for most of that stuff and I've still yet to see a product correctly handle B&W rgb images and convert them to B&W. Yes it will catch some of them but even with Prinergy we still find lots of gray RGB that come out 4 color instead of it converting them to grayscale which is the number one selling point that a salesman will tell you. Oh sure, it will convert them to grayscale based on the amount of RGB in the file. Yeah, it will. Sometimes. What happens when it doesn't? A human being intervenes to fix it.

I do think it works well. I just can't figure out where it might be useful.


Hey Joe,

Thanks for sending some files over. The target market is small publishers and printers who do not have the expertise inhouse to handle PDFs or budgets to purchase expensive in-house prepress systems. While this forum has many technically savvy prepress professionals, I think we can all agree it's not a representation of the entire printing and publishing industry. Some shops still haven't embraced PDF because of tools or knowledge to handle them (i.e. Pitstop is only as good as the operator using it and you may run into problems if you're running a few versions back).

I did some pro bono design work the other day and created a 4C 8.5x11 tri-fold brochure. I contacted the printer I was told to send it to and asked what specs they wanted (What flavor of PDF/X, ICC profile, etc.). They told me all they needed was the native source docs. I told them I could provide the native docs but I prefer they use the PDF/X I would be supplying. The proof they sent back to me was made from my native doc (I could tell because I used a spot build in my InDesign doc which I specifically converted to process in my PDF. The proof they sent back showed a 5th color. The proof made no sense for a 4C digital job). For me, this is an ideal candidate. I've already spoken to them about testing and they're interested.

As with any preflight tool, I absolutely agree you need to check your output and proof it. There are certain things software simply can't fix or check. Sometimes it's possible if you get consistent jobs from a particular customer and you know what you're getting but most of the time it's a total crapshoot. One job could be a nice PDF from InDesign, the next job could be print shop pro from a self-taught graphic designer.

Thanks again for testing. Feel free to send more files if you're bored. I'll drop you an PM which explains how our software handles RGB gray images. It might be helpful.

Greg
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: gnubler on October 27, 2011, 09:37:54 AM

it's a total crapshoot. Almost no jobs are a nice PDF from InDesign, most jobs are print shop pro from a self-taught graphic desinger.


Fixed. lol

Nice to read that Greg knows about the realities of prepress.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Greg_Firestone on October 27, 2011, 09:56:49 AM


it's a total crapshoot. Almost no jobs are a nice PDF from InDesign, most jobs are print shop pro from a self-taught graphic desinger.

Fixed. lol

Nice to read that Greg knows about the realities of prepress.


LOL@ your fix. It's nice to no know I'm no longer Satan reincarnated on here.

With the brochure I previously mentioned, I was asked if I could help out to make sure it would print well. I asked to see the PDF which would be sent to the printer. The self-taught designer printed out his Microsoft Publisher file to his inkjet printer and scanned the output using his scanner software to create the PDF. I almost died. I redesigned the whole thing from scratch.

Greg
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Farabomb on October 27, 2011, 10:08:12 AM
I'm sorry if you felt that way but I don't think you're satan, you seem to know your shit. You might have hit a sore spot with some of the members but we are all a little cranky around here but the bark is worse then the bite. Hope you stick around here.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: gnubler on October 27, 2011, 10:32:11 AM

The self-taught designer printed out his Microsoft Publisher file to his inkjet printer and scanned the output using his scanner software to create the PDF.


They are geniuses, aren't they? Prolly learned that in art school.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: rickself on October 27, 2011, 11:39:29 AM
It could have been worse - they could have sent you the Publisher file! :tapedshut:
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: DigitalCrapShoveler on October 27, 2011, 11:56:48 AM



it's a total crapshoot. Almost no jobs are a nice PDF from InDesign, most jobs are print shop pro from a self-taught graphic desinger.

Fixed. lol

Nice to read that Greg knows about the realities of prepress.


LOL@ your fix. It's nice to no know I'm no longer Satan reincarnated on here.

With the brochure I previously mentioned, I was asked if I could help out to make sure it would print well. I asked to see the PDF which would be sent to the printer. The self-taught designer printed out his Microsoft Publisher file to his inkjet printer and scanned the output using his scanner software to create the PDF. I almost died. I redesigned the whole thing from scratch.

Greg


Ummm, that's my title. Get your own. :laugh:

We are just being honest. I hope you know that... it's nothing personal.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: delooch on October 27, 2011, 12:00:51 PM



I did some pro bono design work the other day and created a 4C 8.5x11 tri-fold brochure. I contacted the printer I was told to send it to and asked what specs they wanted (What flavor of PDF/X, ICC profile, etc.). They told me all they needed was the native source docs. I told them I could provide the native docs but I prefer they use the PDF/X I would be supplying. The proof they sent back to me was made from my native doc (I could tell because I used a spot build in my InDesign doc which I specifically converted to process in my PDF. The proof they sent back showed a 5th color. The proof made no sense for a 4C digital job). For me, this is an ideal candidate. I've already spoken to them about testing and they're interested.




im curious if the workorder spec'd this was a 4c process job, or the prepress guy gave you a proof with the spot build because thats how the doc was built. usually if you go through the trouble of specifying a spot color in a document, converting it to CMYK for final output is self-defeating.

perhaps the prepress guy was doing his job correctly, and gave you a proof based on the intention of the native file.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Joe on October 27, 2011, 12:22:34 PM

I'm sorry if you felt that way but I don't think you're satan, you seem to know your shit. You might have hit a sore spot with some of the members but we are all a little cranky around here but the bark is worse then the bite. Hope you stick around here.


Greg has been around since the prepressforums.com days. I think he may have been greg_onevision back then. Same guy though.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Joe on October 27, 2011, 12:28:40 PM
Hey Joe,

Thanks for sending some files over. The target market is small publishers and printers who do not have the expertise inhouse to handle PDFs or budgets to purchase expensive in-house prepress systems. While this forum has many technically savvy prepress professionals, I think we can all agree it's not a representation of the entire printing and publishing industry. Some shops still haven't embraced PDF because of tools or knowledge to handle them (i.e. Pitstop is only as good as the operator using it and you may run into problems if you're running a few versions back).

Greg


Yeah, I agree that could be a target audience. It could be real handy for a place running digital and their only RIP is that crappy little Fiery or Creo RIP sitting in front of the "digital press" (actually copier). Much cheaper than buying your own full blown workflow I assume. As you said though, I would still need to look at them and have my trusty copy of Pitstop.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: delooch on October 27, 2011, 12:41:57 PM
yeah, i dont mean to be a douchebag, it just comes out that way.  nothing wrong with open discussion.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Greg_Firestone on October 27, 2011, 01:31:07 PM




I did some pro bono design work the other day and created a 4C 8.5x11 tri-fold brochure. I contacted the printer I was told to send it to and asked what specs they wanted (What flavor of PDF/X, ICC profile, etc.). They told me all they needed was the native source docs. I told them I could provide the native docs but I prefer they use the PDF/X I would be supplying. The proof they sent back to me was made from my native doc (I could tell because I used a spot build in my InDesign doc which I specifically converted to process in my PDF. The proof they sent back showed a 5th color. The proof made no sense for a 4C digital job). For me, this is an ideal candidate. I've already spoken to them about testing and they're interested.




im curious if the workorder spec'd this was a 4c process job, or the prepress guy gave you a proof with the spot build because thats how the doc was built. usually if you go through the trouble of specifying a spot color in a document, converting it to CMYK for final output is self-defeating.

perhaps the prepress guy was doing his job correctly, and gave you a proof based on the intention of the native file.


Hi delooch,

The workorder was spec'd as 4 C process. All he did was create a low res PDF from my Indesign file. I suppose that would work for position only but I thought it was somewhat useless. The only logo I was provided for the design was a process CMYK JPG. I grabbed the color and added it as swatch in InDesign. I wanted to add some tints to the design. This is where I had one of those "What was I thinking" moments. For some reason, I had in my mind I needed to make the color a spot with a process build to get the tints. Maybe  I'm thinking back to Quark 4 or something crazy like that. So I made it a spot and converted it to process when making my PDF. After the fact I realized I didn't have to do that.

On a side note, the job came out great. They did a nice job with the skin tones.

@Joe - good memory, that's me.

Greg
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Greg_Firestone on October 27, 2011, 01:32:24 PM

yeah, i dont mean to be a douchebag, it just comes out that way.  nothing wrong with open discussion.


No hard feelings. I decided to post it on the forum because I thought I'd get some honest feedback. I definitely have. It's not just about the technical capabilities of the product but how people perceive it. If it's not clear what it does/doesn't do and how it can be used in a workflow, it will fail faster than Quickster  :lmao:

Greg
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Joe on October 27, 2011, 01:39:34 PM

@Joe - good memory, that's me.

Greg


I think we would have bought Onevision if it did trapping.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: frailer on October 27, 2011, 08:10:03 PM


I'm sorry if you felt that way but I don't think you're satan, you seem to know your shit. You might have hit a sore spot with some of the members but we are all a little cranky around here but the bark is worse then the bite. Hope you stick around here.


Greg has been around since the prepressforums.com days. I think he may have been greg_onevision back then. Same guy though.


Looks like they've gone from archive. Blankety blanks now....    :sad:  Had to happen.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: Joe on October 27, 2011, 08:28:26 PM



I'm sorry if you felt that way but I don't think you're satan, you seem to know your shit. You might have hit a sore spot with some of the members but we are all a little cranky around here but the bark is worse then the bite. Hope you stick around here.


Greg has been around since the prepressforums.com days. I think he may have been greg_onevision back then. Same guy though.


Looks like they've gone from archive. Blankety blanks now....    :sad:  Had to happen.


It's been gone for quite some time now. The last time I tried it was re-directing to PP.
Title: Re: Anyone interested in pilot testing a new preflight program?
Post by: frailer on October 27, 2011, 08:33:53 PM




I'm sorry if you felt that way but I don't think you're satan, you seem to know your shit. You might have hit a sore spot with some of the members but we are all a little cranky around here but the bark is worse then the bite. Hope you stick around here.


Greg has been around since the prepressforums.com days. I think he may have been greg_onevision back then. Same guy though.


Looks like they've gone from archive. Blankety blanks now....    :sad:  Had to happen.


It's been gone for quite some time now. The last time I tried it was re-directing to PP.


Think tear-jerking rendition of Andrew Lloyd Webber's 'Memories'  :shrug:  The only thing it would be interesting for is to see just how fast we've all travelled on the APPE Highway.

... which I'd like to think is relevant to this thread.    :undecided: