Got a strange call the other day. My previous employer recommended me for a job at a mail house, and gave a glowing recommendation. Today I have an interview. Last week on the phone, they asked my salary requirements and I quoted them about $15k/year higher than what I currently make and they said that they were willing to pay. Now I don't know what to do. I'm working for the devil I know, but I know nothing about the devil I don't know other than it's a mail house with 85-100 employees and that can process up to 40 million pieces of mail a month. Has anyone ever worked in a mail house? Can you give me some insight as to what the day is like?
Just from your previous job info, I think you are qualified, you have done fusion pro, variable data etc..
I know they do Bulk rate programs, I think you've done that before?
Some mail houses do printing too.
Maybe you could ask for a quick tour? Tell the you want to see how your experience and knowledge integrates with what they do.
We've gone from print only to print and mailing in the past 4 years or so.
I would say mailing work is suited for most prepress workers... lots of computer work and troubleshooting. Having variable experience is very important. Integrating digital printing with graphics/printing is also very important now a days. You might be a very good fit once you get rolling.
So i did an interview last night. Not sure what to make of it. They promise all kinds of late hours and overtime. I don't know if I want that. I'm only 10 minutes from home, and I kind of have a flex schedule as to my arrive time. I'll make less money, and do lots of manual labor (lifting heavy objects over my head repeatedly) than I will i I go to the new place, but it might be worth it to stay here.
Plus, leaving to get home was a bitch. There's a stupid light rail train in that part of Sac, and it's runs directly in front of the freeway on ramp. There's the river on the other side, so going another route isn't an option. And there's an area near the stop signal that says, "Keep Clear," and while it took three rotations of the stop light to get through, it was mostly because I saw over a half dozen douchebags go down the chicken lane with their left turn signals on, only to cut into traffic at the KEEP CLEAR gap. If I had to deal with that every day, I might kill someone.
At the very least, I might use the option to ask for more money to stay here.
Sounds like you already know which job is best for your life situation....
It's the :dev2: I know, vs. the :dev2: I don't know, too.
Yep, corn... you interviewed them and aren't too impressed. Go with your gut.
We have an in-house mail dept and my wife worked at a big mail house, years ago... it is bindery, man... don't gloss it over. They offer overtime because the mail house is at the end of the production line. Shit rolls down the line and the slipping deadline will always be your problem. The machines... they feed paper at an incredible rate, and jam just as fast, just like every other piece of bindery/press equipment. I'm not ripping on mail houses, but I would be pretty desperate to go back to bindery. Even if you are only doing list sort and other computer tasks, you are always busy at the end of day/week. Kinda the opposite of prepress... I'm busy monday (sometimes sunday) thru wednesday, with Thurs and Fri being more chill. Mail guys wander around monday and tuesday but are always here late on Friday.
Pick your poison, prepress stress or mind-numbing grunt work.
I've come from a digital printers and now work at a mailhouse - I really enjoy it the work.
I work in the datashop and print room and the pace is a big change to what I was used to. Often the turnaround times are hourly, not daily/weekly (particularly for email jobs) and there is a surprising variety in the work, it's not just name+address work. The volumes are reasonably consistent as there are plenty of projects and fulfilment work to keep you busy when the ad hoc jobs dry up. It's not as much peak/trough work that I was used when I was in digital printing.
Even though the work is good and I enjoy the fast pace, the bar is lower than expected when it comes to quality. This bugs the hell out of me but understandably, the hierarchy here is accuracy>timeliness>quality. I think it's because a recipient will only ever receive 1x item of finished output, so the colour consistency and print quality demands aren't as high as when you ship 10,000 units to a single recipient who will see the variation immediately. That, and the product you are sending isn't going to be sold to a consumer.
For me, the real deciding factors were that I can up-skill with solid, transferrable skills, the company where I work has a great culture and I have an awesome set of awesome mangers, all the way to the top. Having a decent set of managers makes all the difference in any job, not matter how good/bad the work is.
Check what kind of work they do. If it's direct marketing (DM) material, the work will probably be interesting and varied (and is possible it will grow as direct marketing is hugely effective and ad agencies are aware of this). If they primarily do transactional work (invoices/statements etc) then be wary as that market is plummeting due to online access.
Agreed, for lower skilled, entry level workers, it is a great opportunity.
Corn is a skilled/manager level tech. Mailhouse or Digital is a huge step down from Litho prepress, in terms of skill required. It's going the wrong direction... more work, less thinking... consulting would be a more natural progression for an old prepress salt.
I agree that litho is in a totally different ballpark in terms of technicality and skill compared to digital, but I've found the mailhouse where I work (at least in my role) actually feels like I'm in a completely different industry, which just so happens to have a strong print focus. It could be argued that we're closer to the comms industry than printing. I suppose it depends on what the specific mailhouse specialises in and what their in-house capabilities are.
In my role it could be argued that I'm more closely aligned with IT development (which is where the transferable skills lie) than with a digital print operator - it's comparing apples with oranges. My digital print experience helps, but by no means do I have a printer's hat on all day.
Consider a project where depending on the values of the input data, you need to send an email, a letter and/or SMS to a recipient. Perhaps the communication piece points the recipient to a personalised micro website where you need to measure their response, and depending on what it is you need to follow that up with an appropriate email/SMS/Letter/phone call prompt. At the same time all communications have to instantly replicated in PDF form with the correct searchable information embedded in the metadata and uploaded to a call centre's server so that if said recipient contacts the client, their call centre operator can search in their system to pull up the mail item/email/SMS in question. Depending on the size of the input data, the postal address information may require cleansing to achieve the best possible postal lodgement rates. All of this has to 100% robust, with complete lights-out automation with as little as possible human intervention (preferably zero) at the production phase. Apples and oranges :)
But yeah totally agree - if you wind up being a print monkey or are unfortunate enough to work in the lettershop (heaven forbid), you can leave your brain at home, because chances are you're not going to need it if you come from a litho prepress background. All depends on the role you are being offered, where you can go within the company and what sort of thing floats your boat.
Quote from: GinsTonic on May 15, 2017, 09:13:10 PMI agree that litho is in a totally different ballpark in terms of technicality and skill compared to digital, but I've found the mailhouse where I work (at least in my role) actually feels like I'm in a completely different industry, which just so happens to have a strong print focus. It could be argued that we're closer to the comms industry than printing. I suppose it depends on what the specific mailhouse specialises in and what their in-house capabilities are.
In my role it could be argued that I'm more closely aligned with IT development (which is where the transferable skills lie) than with a digital print operator - it's comparing apples with oranges. My digital print experience helps, but by no means do I have a printer's hat on all day.
Consider a project where depending on the values of the input data, you need to send an email, a letter and/or SMS to a recipient. Perhaps the communication piece points the recipient to a personalised micro website where you need to measure their response, and depending on what it is you need to follow that up with an appropriate email/SMS/Letter/phone call prompt. At the same time all communications have to instantly replicated in PDF form with the correct searchable information embedded in the metadata and uploaded to a call centre's server so that if said recipient contacts the client, their call centre operator can search in their system to pull up the mail item/email/SMS in question. Depending on the size of the input data, the postal address information may require cleansing to achieve the best possible postal lodgement rates. All of this has to 100% robust, with complete lights-out automation with as little as possible human intervention (preferably zero) at the production phase. Apples and oranges :)
But yeah totally agree - if you wind up being a print monkey or are unfortunate enough to work in the lettershop (heaven forbid), you can leave your brain at home, because chances are you're not going to need it if you come from a litho prepress background. All depends on the role you are being offered, where you can go within the company and what sort of thing floats your boat.
Just shows you how broad the spectrum can be nowadays. Half of this stuff you mention doing does not even make sense to me. Seems to be a lot more than mailing work, more like mailing and IT type work blended together. Not all prepress workers would be capable of the complexity of this kind, some, but definately not all.
Indeed. I agree with both of you. I'm speaking specifically to DigiCorn's skillset.
I will say, I can slide into the mailroom and handle their workflow, spreadsheets, variable data, the IT part.... yes, I understand your SMS speak. And little digital RIPs, like EFI Fiery are not complex either (though nerverackin at times). I installed and trained myself on our EFI Fiery with digital press, last year. First time I laid hands on a Fiery. Zero support, beyond getting the admin password. Was producing the next day. Digital is a side project, compared to feeding a platesetter.
The Mailroom techs I know wouldn't have the first clue what to do with the prepress. Alls I'm saying is, I know how to do their job and mine, and I know which is more challenging and why. I have done both. Have you prepped for large web presses in a modern CTP environment? If not, you might not know of what you speak. If so, I'll shut the hell up. :rotf:
Quote from: Ear on May 16, 2017, 10:44:27 AMI will say, I can slide into the mailroom and handle their workflow, spreadsheets, variable data, the IT part.... yes, I understand your SMS speak. And little digital RIPs, like EFI Fiery are not complex either (though nerverackin at times). I installed and trained myself on our EFI Fiery with digital press, last year. First time I laid hands on a Fiery. Zero support, beyond getting the admin password. Was producing the next day. Digital is a side project, compared to feeding a platesetter.
The Mailroom techs I know wouldn't have the first clue what to do with the prepress. Alls I'm saying is, I know how to do their job and mine, and I know which is more challenging and why. I have done both. Have you prepped for large web presses in a modern CTP environment? If not, you might not know of what you speak. If so, I'll shut the hell up. :rotf:
I totally agree that a litho presspress tech would slide into a mailhouse role with less disruption than going the other direction, as print production isn't necessarily the primary focus of a mailhouse, it's a means to an end. I know prepress to enough to get by, but like you say I haven't prepped for large web presses in a modern CTP environment, so I don't think initially I'd do as well in your role as perhaps what you could do in mine.
Based on the litho prepress techs I've worked with I think they are perfect for certain mailhouse roles as they have the technical smarts where it counts and great problem solving skills. In short, based on OP's question - a prepress tech could thrive at a mailhouse and really add serious value to the business if they are slotted into the correct role. If you want to be doing prepress and you enjoy it, then no - a mailhouse is not for you. :)
Either way, Gins, you sound like a competent operator... I imagine you would learn any software you decided you wanted to. I think anyone who has a good computing base and a fair amount of OCD can do well with any of it. :rotf:
My Wife shared a silly internet test that said she was 100% OCD... I offered her a job. :tongue:
I wish! The woman is a serious computer tech herself.... actually kinda proves the point too... she is a mill production officer and was production cdr for a major communications mfgr. She specializes in software like Syspro, which is that industry's version of the print workflow. I bet she would figure the prepress thing out quickly. It would be the inaccurate job tickets that would get her. Right Farabomb!?! Put the info on the jacket!
No one, anywhere is "happy" doing prepress. :shoots_self:
Not true. I am happy as hell everyday I punch out. :tongue:
You :drunk3: just :drunk3: have :drunk3: to :drunk3: make :drunk3: it :drunk3: happy.... :drunk3:
You're leaving Joe, you're no longer doing prepress. That doesn't count.
I wouldn't waste good booze drinking at work.
No....
I only have it at night....
(all night).
Quote from: Farabomb on May 17, 2017, 07:19:34 AMYou're leaving Joe, you're no longer doing prepress. That doesn't count.
I wouldn't waste good booze drinking at work.
Yeah but there is that short burst of euphoria when I am walking to the time clock still in prepress. I imagine it feels like shooting up heroine. Speaking of which....our local number one drug problem here is heroine. It overtook meth recently.
H is no joke. It's been a major issue up by me for a while. It overtook meth a long way back. That's the fault of the pharma companies that were pushing opiates for years and now we have a bunch of junkies that can't handle their shit that got turned on by their doctors. What's depressing is I have severe joint issues and I have to FIGHT to get any sort of pain meds. The junkies have no issues getting their fix while I get to sit in a ball some days because my joints feel like they're filled with glass. My knee hasn't worked in 2 years now and every time I go to the doc they're just worried about my BP. Yes it's elevated I'm in pain on a daily basis. Maybe sort that and see if my BP goes down.
I don't get that feeling Joe, I don't punch a clock. >:(
Quote from: Farabomb on May 17, 2017, 07:19:34 AMYou're leaving Joe, you're no longer doing prepress. That doesn't count.
I wouldn't waste good booze drinking at work.
Joe is leaving?? Can't be true.
Oh, HELL, no. You can't leave prepress. It'll haunt you in your dreams. You'll have JPEGs chasing you in your sleep.
Chill guys, I meant leaving work for the day...
Quote from: Farabomb on May 17, 2017, 08:26:03 AMChill guys, I meant leaving work for the day...
I have to admit leaving for good sounds nice too.
I think that on a daily basis but I like shelter and food.
And beer.
Yeah I am pretty sure I would fail at being a homeless person.
Woah, guys, you had me skeered for a minute.
At the risk of sounding odd, I will actually stand up and say I do like this job.
Granted, there are times when I wake up in a cold sweat at 3:00 in the morning thinking about it, however, I don't know how I would put up with the bad times without liking the work.
Joe must like SOMETHING about it too, you only get really good at something you like.
Go ahead, fire away at me. :gom:
Like just after I said I like the job, Acrobat crashed.
HAHA :drunk3: Yippie!
Then I forgot the "command - option J" thing and all that wonky separations trouble came back.
Now that's comedy!
:drunk3:
I love my job actually... :banana: :banana: :banana:
It is the firms I work for that get in the way... :strangle:
Yeah, the ownership seems to be getting in the way more and more these days. Leaves me wondering who owns the company some times.
Guess it's hard to own the company and not know what's going on as much anymore. Things have changed a lot and are changing constantly.
Inmates are running the asylum these days.
Trouble comes when the higher ups belong in an asylum.
Yes I actually like the work but despise the bullshit I have to go through to do the actual work. In my shangri la I would go to work in an empty building and the work would just be there waiting for me to do it. If there are any problems I could just email whomever to resolve it and never, EVER have to deal with a customer in person or over the phone. I hate phones. And people. Well...most people. Present company not included. :rotf:
I used to have something like that during my first job in printing. I was switched to second shift, typesetting and pasteup, and I WAS second shift. No phones, no people, no problems, just get it done.
I actually don't mind the work itself, albeit working with obsolete computers and software. There's three things I really don't like, and they have nothing to do with the actual digital work:
1. The daily 100 km roundtrip commute esp. in winter.
2. Dealing with the corporate suits that run our division from 250 km away. We are now just a number in a ledger.
3. The corporate "politically correct" rules we now have to live by.
Especially #3 - it's pure BS - it's now better to be politically correct than correct.
Quote from: Possum on May 17, 2017, 12:20:19 PMI used to have something like that during my first job in printing. I was switched to second shift, typesetting and pasteup, and I WAS second shift. No phones, no people, no problems, just get it done.
It was like that when I started here. At 5:00 pm was just me for the rest of the night. It was bliss.
I do like what I do. I'm quite proud of it in fact.
Like others have stated it's all the bullshit that goes along with it. It would also help my mood if I actually had some prepress work. I'm falling asleep at my damn desk today.
Its a long weekend up here in Kanata, is it a holiday in the States? Just wonderin is all.
May 24 we call it.
Reference to picking up a 24 of beer. (case of 24).
Not sure if 24 beers would be enough this weekend though!
By the way, its about 90 degrees farenheight here in Toronto right now, 7pm, very strange.
uh, Fahrenheit?
No holiday this weekend but Memorial Day weekend the following weekend.
Funny that, we have a holiday here in NZ the weekend after yours Joe, first weekend of june, then its 4 long hard months of winter with no holidays... ugh
Quote from: Joe on May 17, 2017, 06:04:13 PMNo holiday this weekend but Memorial Day weekend the following weekend.
May Two-Four (Victoria Day) holiday for us up here this weekend, the unofficial start to the summer party season.
:drunk3:
Figures it is hot and sunny today in Toronto but they are calling for cold and wet on the weekend...
At least inside my beer cooler...
We're in a heatwave and I'm not sure I'm a fan. I don't mind the heat but my beer is getting too warm too fast.
Having a friend up for the weekend so I expect to get into some trouble. Last time she was up we were hanging out in the spillway on the lake and she put her hand down expecting concrete but it was a foot lower and lake. Ended up ass over teakettle in the lake and she was screaming like she got murdered. Black sistas take their hair very, very seriously.
lol.... I am so laughing imagining how that went down!
I was funny as hell. Damn city folk freak out when they come to the country. You'd think she fell into a vat of acid the way she was acting. Mind you this is around midnight and we've been drinking heavily all day. It was during my annual sausage fest party. My neighbors that live there full time are used to the chaos.
The weekenders were frightened but since I already had the cops there early and had them back for food later I'm sure they ignored any calls they got.
'annual sausage fest party'.... ok the mind boggles at that one!
Just don't ask about his annual lemon party. Scandalous.
I'm German and my GF is Polish. We have a predilection for the sausage arts so our annual BBQ tends to have mostly sausage so we call it sausagefest.
Nobody should ever know about the lemon party.
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/48/48c0d5c9be32f611fce5767712745d8fc058aba6fe444f963315bfd41452835a.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-bvHlb2Fe8
Lemon party makes me think of Randy and Mr. Layhe. TPB, FTW.
Quote from: Ear on May 23, 2017, 04:37:31 PMLemon party makes me think of Randy and Mr. Layhe. TPB, FTW.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RnD-0cA3PU
I liked the show when he's driving around in Ricki's car in the trailer park (it's a car with no roof, no, not a convertible, the roof got ripped off somehow) but he's drving around the trailer park with a jug of vodka gulping down about 4 ounces at a time.
Poor old Mr. Layhe. Spent the whole day slurring about this and that.
After awhile that show just got to be too much for me, hard to watch with anyone else around without feeling uncomfortable. Very funny at times though.
I cried laughing at the one where Julian turns Kitty town into whorehouses for a private party for Steve Rogers. All of Bubbles' kittehs get infested with crabs and Bubbs loses his shit in the laundry mat. :rotf:
And yeah, my wife HATES it. I grew up WAY the F out in the logs ("the sticks" was town, to me - town of 400, 20 miles from a town of 1000). I lived out on a farm but the town shenanigans of 80's rural town remind me a lot of TPB... kinda have a soft spot for 'em
My fave was the "hash" driveway, or when they stopped the Rita McNeil tour bus and forced the passengers, including Rita, to harvest their pot plants.
Oh man, hash driveway is super funny. I love the running hash coin gag too. And that Ricky is completely inept at life, but is a pot growing genius. I know a couple of guys, man... they suck at life so bad it gets contagious, but damn that 710 is clean and on point.