B4Print.com

Operating Systems => Windows => Topic started by: frailer on June 28, 2017, 12:20:34 AM

Title: Server hotswapping
Post by: frailer on June 28, 2017, 12:20:34 AM
Been a bit of a saga, but I just ordered a drive from Leizig to replace one of the three running our system drive on the HP Proliant, which runs XMF. I hadn't noticed one was red-lighted. :embarrassed:

After some argy-bargy, I went for this one, as with price+freight seems pretty good. Fujifilm guy is off to the other side of the country for 2 weeks next week. Our IT guy, who's in the centre of the city, and visits on a similar time frame to Halley's Comet, has not yet proffered a reply by email. However, and opinion from the Screen guy, (we'll be upgrading to Screen thermal), says hot-swapping may be better, as it should start striping over once it's in and detects the new drive (SCSI Controller stuff?). He said that this may obviate the need to get into BIOS to reset stuff. Am too old for that learning curve.

The Leipzig guys seem to be implying that its wiped/formatted ready to go.

My new compadre is back in Tuesday, and I doubt it'll be here before then, he'll be of actual and moral support.

I'm basing doing this on Mr Murphy being a constant presence, potentially. Will be weeks before the new server comes, I think.

.... oh, it's 3 disk RAID 5, but am verifying that.

Thoughts are most welcome.

The one I bought---¬

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/272041842344
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: frailer on June 28, 2017, 01:53:44 AM
Just spoke with our IT guy. Feeling much better about it now. His take:

-if it's hot swappable, it'll start to rebuild the drive straight away. 

-If it's not, it will be there as a new drive and build with new information over time.

I don't quite get this, bit... does that mean it achieves the same result over a longer time?
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Joe on June 28, 2017, 08:43:37 AM
Well that sounds like BS to me. If it is hot swappable and my guess is that it is it should rebuild once you replace it. If it is not hot swappable when you put it in it will basically become a drive that is unused.

Somewhere in your server their should be some kind of HP ProLiant Array Configuration Utility that might be helpful to look at. You can see which drive is bad and it should tell you if the drives are hot swappable and then it should show that it is rebuilding once you replace the drive. Also you really should make sure that drive you are buying is the same model and size as the other drives.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Farabomb on June 28, 2017, 08:54:07 AM
I'm with Joe. The drive has to match or you're asking for trouble. Can you get away with a larger one? yes but you're throwing away the extra space and the RAID only will see it as the same size as the existing array.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: DigiCorn on June 28, 2017, 11:31:04 AM
I once had an issue with a Hot Swappable RAID-5. I made the boss do it. Immediately on pulling the drive, it killed the server. The RAID-5 never lived again. Luckily, everything was backed up, and we actually had pre-ordered a new server that was sitting and waiting. But it wasn't MY fault.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: mattbeals on June 28, 2017, 01:22:05 PM
If it's a hot swap drive system AND it's RAID5 (hardware or software doesn't matter) AND you swap the correct drive, the RAID array will automatically rebuild itself.

IF you pull the wrong drive, well I hope you have a good and recent backup.
IF you replace the dead drive with a larger drive you will loose the drive capacity beyond what the other drives have.
IF you have a free drive slot AND a compatible RAID controller you should add a 4th drive as a "hot spare" so that you reduce the likelihood of running in "degraded" mode like you are now.

I've never had a RAID 5 die on me except for the time when someone pulled the wrong drive. That was bad. Very bad... Always have a RAID configuration that includes a hot spare. Not a cold spare, but a hot spare. In the even a drive fails you'll be glad the hot spare was there. And always be sure that the replacement drive is the same RPM as the old drive. I've seen guys replace 15k RPM disks with 10k RPM disks. The array slows down, not what you want.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Joe on June 28, 2017, 01:44:16 PM
Quote from: mattbeals date=1498670525 link=msg=292280

If it's a hot swap drive system AND it's RAID5 (hardware or software doesn't matter) AND you swap the correct drive, the RAID array will automatically rebuild itself.

IF you pull the wrong drive, well I hope you have a good and recent backup.


Very good point. That is why you need the raid utility. You can tell it to make the light blink on the bad drive so you are sure you are pulling the right one. As Matt said....if you pull the wrong drive your day is going to get a lot worse.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: frailer on June 28, 2017, 08:03:38 PM
I'll look for that drive utility, but it's lit up, anyway.

I've physically flagged it, and I'll get compadre to check. I'm not doing this alone.
haven't dismissed the idea of getting in-house Co IT guy to come up and do it, (we're out on the fringes of suburbia; our parent company in the centre). If stuff goes wrong, he can at least do more than I ever could.

Pic is conveniently outa focus so you can't see the dust.

The bottom 3 are the 72.8 sys RAID. Top 3 are the 146 x 3 genstore/job data RAID. Only about6~8 weeks to go, but Mr Murphy would not give a flying fuck about that. In fact he may even quite enjoy watching stuff fail.

Oh, that's right... it's what he likes to do, isn't it.

The drive is a 'perfect match', AFAICPT, to the ones in the array.

Oh, and thanks for the input...
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Joe on June 28, 2017, 10:38:02 PM
You most likely have two separate RAID array's there. The top 3 is one array and the bottom three are the second array. Drives in an array are numbered, in your case 0, 1, 2 for each array. I would still find that utility and see which drive it says is bad and then tell it to blink just so you know for sure the one that is lit up is the same one that blinks and is the bad one.

If you can't find the utility you can usually reboot the server and then watch the screen. There should be a RAID setup and telling you what keys to push to enter it when it is going through the boot process and you can do the same thing from it as you can from the RAID utility within Windows.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: mattbeals on June 28, 2017, 10:48:30 PM
Quote from: frailer date=1498694618 link=msg=292285

I'll look for that drive utility, but it's lit up, anyway.

I've physically flagged it, and I'll get compadre to check. I'm not doing this alone.
haven't dismissed the idea of getting in-house Co IT guy to come up and do it, (we're out on the fringes of suburbia; our parent company in the centre). If stuff goes wrong, he can at least do more than I ever could.

Pic is conveniently outa focus so you can't see the dust.

The bottom 3 are the 72.8 sys RAID. Top 3 are the 146 x 3 genstore/job data RAID. Only about6~8 weeks to go, but Mr Murphy would not give a flying fuck about that. In fact he may even quite enjoy watching stuff fail.

Oh, that's right... it's what he likes to do, isn't it.

The drive is a 'perfect match', AFAICPT, to the ones in the array.

Oh, and thanks for the input...


Dude... Seriously??? I can see the dust bunnies coming out between the drives and the blanks even though it's out of focus. You need to get that thing cleaned ASAP before you have more problems. The heat will kill the components, fans or power supply first. You really need a PM cycle on that. Since you don't have room in the drive cage for any spares I'd suggest you order an extra 72GB and 146GB (or two) drives just in case.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: mattbeals on June 28, 2017, 10:59:19 PM
Quote from: Joe link=msg=292287 date=1498703882

You most likely have two separate RAID array's there. The top 3 is one array and the bottom three are the second array. Drives in an array are numbered, in your case 0, 1, 2 for each array. I would still find that utility and see which drive it says is bad and then tell it to blink just so you know for sure the one that is lit up is the same one that blinks and is the bad one.

If you can't find the utility you can usually reboot the server and then watch the screen. There should be a RAID setup and telling you what keys to push to enter it when it is going through the boot process and you can do the same thing from it as you can from the RAID utility within Windows.


If you have two different sets of drives then you have two different arrays. You probably have this RAID controller: Smart Array P400i ( http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/archives_division/12400_div_v3/12400_div.html ) There's a web management tool for the RAID controller, this might be compatible with yours: http://h20564.www2.hpe.com/hpsc/swd/public/detail?swItemId=MTX_4effd70562304a50b3be5c4b96

On the HP Proliants that I had the RAID controllers would detect the new drive and start rebuilding the array automatically. No manual intervention needed.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Joe on June 29, 2017, 12:42:57 AM
Same thing on my Dell servers. Swap the drive out and it automatically starts rebuilding.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: frailer on July 03, 2017, 12:25:54 AM
Deutschepost's idea of tracking is.... you go to the site, paste in the Tracking Number, and each time it says... "You item has been posted".

:rotf:
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: frailer on July 05, 2017, 10:49:23 PM
The moment of truth has arrived from Leipzig. Zose Chermans are pretty efficient.

Mañana though. I need to approach with caution, and some 'help'. A bit too pre-occupied today.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Joe on July 06, 2017, 08:56:19 AM
SCSI drives...reminds me of my youth. :cane:
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Farabomb on July 06, 2017, 09:03:07 AM
I just went and looked at our old AGFA server. Has those drives but only 36.4 G drives.

I think I need to take those 3 rackmounts home just on principle.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Joe on July 06, 2017, 09:15:26 AM
I got over my desire to save every old computer system. They are slow, use too much power and put out a lot of heat. They go to the Boy Scouts of America recycling program anymore.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Farabomb on July 06, 2017, 10:11:57 AM
I want to take the whole rack home but I think the woman would get a bit pissed.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Joe on July 06, 2017, 10:24:23 AM
I do need a place to put all my PC's at home but a rack mount wouldn't work since I have no rack mount PC's at home. Maybe a barn would help.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Farabomb on July 06, 2017, 10:25:44 AM
I have them scattered throughout my tiny house. Luckily the woman is understanding.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: frailer on July 11, 2017, 10:46:30 PM
Well, on Friday our in-house systems guy, (not so much IT/computer specific, but reasonable skill in the area), walked me though over the phone on the drive swap. Once restarted, it still showed an error light. H e arranged to come up Monday morning.
Long story short, it seems it's a battery located on the Array Controller board, on the main board. As this is an 11 year old box, we're stepping back from it, as it's for de-commissioning in about 2 weeks. I'm diligently Archiving (XMF Archiving), all jobs in the meantime.

As well as that, the transit motor on the plate processor decided to shit itself, (brushes gone), so >$1000 (punitive bean-counter storage charges... they compound the price every year). The processor will (should) go in about 6~8 weeks.

Mr Murphy at work; but it's what can happen when you hang on to equipment beyond a reasonable 'use-by'.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: frailer on July 18, 2017, 08:56:34 PM
The XMF server box-swap is imminent; about a week, I think.
I've ordered this as an interim (on instruction) to run the Luxel off the new server, until the Screen 'setter arrives... 6~8 weeks, supposedly.
Realz...
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Joe on July 18, 2017, 09:35:39 PM
Good luck!
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Farabomb on July 19, 2017, 08:51:54 AM
Is that a Firewire card? Who still uses firewire?
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Joe on July 19, 2017, 08:56:52 AM
Probably is. When everyone stopped using SCSI they went to Firewire for a short time. We still have a Creo scanner hooked up to a G5 that is Firewire.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Farabomb on July 19, 2017, 09:03:37 AM
I still have my iPod that charges only on firewire. Waiting a few more years before the hipsters go nuts and have to have one. I can sell it and retire.  ::)
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: frailer on July 20, 2017, 08:12:32 PM
Quote from: Farabomb date=1500468714 link=msg=292698

Is that a Firewire card? Who still uses firewire?

The Luxel V6 uses it. It's been in 11 years.
It's an interim measure so that the new server can replace the old one, have XMF upgraded yada...and still feed the Luxel until the Screen 4600 comes in. Worth every cent of the $100 ish to do that.

Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: frailer on July 24, 2017, 06:59:38 AM
Pics are PCI Card (FireWire) going in @ 1600 hrs.. He goes home and does a brief fiddle re Black Magic.

He returns, like Macarthur, at 0830 tomorrow. Plan is to get our Archived (XMF jobs I've saved off to a LaCie drive from the old server), pull em back over.
Hopefully be running in a few hours. All plated for tomorrow morning's press runs, so pressure's off there.

We then await the Screen 4600S from JapanLand.
I thought I was too old to get excited, (other than sighting old pics of Valerie Perrine), but...  :banana:
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: frailer on July 24, 2017, 07:06:24 AM
Quote from: Farabomb date=1500469417 link=msg=292700

I still have my iPod that charges only on firewire. Waiting a few more years before the hipsters go nuts and have to have one. I can sell it and retire.  ::)

Don't roll your eyes mate; wait. Now if only I'd bought up some of those Quicksilver G4s, and the odd Blu'n'white G3.

Serious works of art that many a cashed up hipster would have on their half-acre coffee table.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Farabomb on July 24, 2017, 08:19:39 AM
Holy RAM slots batman. I count 18, is that right?
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: baritone on July 24, 2017, 09:33:58 AM
8 per cpu so 16 but he only got 1 cpu so can fill all memory slots
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Farabomb on July 24, 2017, 09:39:36 AM
Now I count 24. 12 per CPU slot 6 on top and 6 below. I'm seeing white, black and blue.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Joe on July 24, 2017, 09:47:20 AM
For the old big HP or Dell servers it isn't uncommon to have that many ram slots. They can probably only take 2 or 4 gb ram chips though so it takes a lot of slots to have a lot of memory in them.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Farabomb on July 24, 2017, 10:39:52 AM
I know that server boards are full of RAM slots. It's just been so long that I've seen close to current hardware it's interesting to see that many.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Joe on July 24, 2017, 10:46:56 AM
I think our two new dell servers only have 8 slots. They want to sell you the 32 gb ram chips.
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Farabomb on July 24, 2017, 11:22:30 AM
Sounds exactly like Dell (and Apple).
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: frailer on July 26, 2017, 06:07:27 PM
Posting here as it's part of the transition. Day 2, really, of the transition. We have upgraded XMF on the new server, still running the Luxel via Firewire PCI.

New XMF Client on new iMac, new Black Magic Client on same.

Black Magic server has been upgraded, and moved to run on the Windows 2012 HP server. So quite the transition...

Downside, still running old Adobe on old iMacs, so doing work on the files there, then dropping them over to the new iMacs, until we're 'Adobe-upgraded'.

My problem is the leap from 10.6.8 t Sierra. HowTF do you see Volume icons when you connect to another Mac/PC. Nothing seems to appear on the Desktop, like in 10.6?
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: frailer on July 26, 2017, 06:34:37 PM
Found an unchecked button in Finder Prefs....

In Future Shock here...
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Joe on July 26, 2017, 06:57:42 PM
Quote from: frailer date=1501108477 link=msg=292918

Found an unchecked button in Finder Prefs....

In Future Shock here...


Check them all:

[attachimg=1 width=400]
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: frailer on July 27, 2017, 01:44:30 AM
Yep...I was in 10.6Land

XMF is now 64bit/multi-threading... fast. Black Magic on same server... fast.

Because we have been dragging the chain on Adobe upgrades, I'm hopping between a chair and a stool; check/fix stuff on old iMac, drop it into new one, take into XMF and proof from there. Like I've got bed-bugs...

But seriously, I don't know myself. Well, sometimes I don't know myself because I forget who I am, but that's different.   :old:
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: frailer on July 27, 2017, 01:50:45 AM

All working, but not without a few hiccups, natch...
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Joe on July 27, 2017, 09:02:49 AM
BTW...Apple just released Mac OS Sierra 10.12.6 today so it is time to upgrade again! :rotf:
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: Farabomb on July 27, 2017, 10:47:50 AM
Did they only make one plate stacker? Had the exact one in my old shop.

You expected to not have any hiccups? That's cute.  ;D
Title: Re: Server hotswapping
Post by: frailer on July 27, 2017, 08:47:38 PM
Quote from: Joe date=1501160569 link=msg=292927

BTW...Apple just released Mac OS Sierra 10.12.6 today so it is time to upgrade again! :rotf:

:whatever:  The one I've been postponing for a few days...

Managed a fast turnaround on proofs that "have to go this morning"; which I'd never have contemplated before...

(quietly now examines fingernails and whistles softly...  :laugh: )