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Operating Systems => Macintosh => Topic started by: AaronH on August 07, 2019, 02:34:16 PM

Title: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 07, 2019, 02:34:16 PM
Hey guys, I'm hoping one of you can help with this.

We stopped using AFP a while ago... June maybe? Yep June. Anyway, Within the last week, we've been experiencing issues with the SMB share. Finder windows aren't refreshing their contents anymore. Files that have been deleted on one workstation are still showing up on the other (Yet don't open if double clicked). Compressed files of any sort can no longer be un-compressed on the SMB share. They have to be done on the desktop. Excel files have to be worked on from the desktop as they will sometimes randomly delete themselves upon saving - this is a huge issue for us until our shop switches to the MIS system... Seriously we've been doing cost sheets and everything from Excel documents for decades - 2 of them I think. Another issue is that Illustrator (mostly) warns that files have been modified outside of illustrator upon saving a file.

Anyone have any idea how to fix any of this?
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 07, 2019, 02:41:33 PM
What OS and version is the SMB shares running under?
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 07, 2019, 02:56:55 PM
Both workstations are iMac's running 10.12.6. The server is a LaCie 5Big NAS running NAS OS Firmware 4.3.15.1.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 07, 2019, 03:26:17 PM
Is the NAS using SMB1 or SMB 2/3? SMB1 is old but a lot of legacy hardware manufacturers either won't or can't upgrade the SMB version via firmware which makes then a little wonky with newer OS versions that want to use SMB2/3.

If it only started in the last week though....has there been any Mac OS updates or firmware updates on the NAS.

If nothing has been updated I would unshare the NAS shares and then re-create them and see if you still see the issues.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 07, 2019, 03:47:47 PM
There were security updates to the Macs this last week. Mine was last week on Friday and the other was yesterday. I don't know what the updates specifically were for though besides a security update.

I'll have to see about unsharing the NAS shares when the office isn't using it.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 07, 2019, 04:29:30 PM
It looks like the NAS SMB version is Samba 4.6.1.

Edit... Samba is 4.6.1 and SMB is version 3.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 07, 2019, 06:38:48 PM
Update. The firmware on the file server was also updated (By me for shame) last Friday. Our shop was hit with a pretty nasty thunderstorm and I was called in to work at 5:30 in the morning to help get it going. Since no one comes in until 8 or so for the office staff (no one else accesses the server), I figured I'd finally get around to updating the server firmware. it didn't mention anything regarding SMB in any of the updates. I still can't find anything regarding an SMB change in the update logs.

From what I'm reading on the net though, apple's had a lot of issues with SMB in the Sierra and older days and some people had better luck with High Sierra and Mohave. Is this true?

I've tried looking for help on LaCie's website but they're pretty much defunct now that Seagate owns them.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 08, 2019, 10:41:37 AM
I'm running Mojave and using SMB and I don't have the issues you are seeing. However, and isn't there always a however, the network browser in Mohave sucks ass. When you open a Finder window and click the Network icon in the left sidebar you may or may not get a list of network computers. If you wait long enough you may finally get the list. You may not. Just make sure to create a hosts file on all Macs pointing to any computers you need to network with. If not you will have a lot of problems. Then use the 'Connect to Server...' option under the Finder 'Go' menu and connect either via the IP address or computer name, ie...smb://ipaddress or smb://computername.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 08, 2019, 12:08:04 PM
Alright. Thanks for the heads up. I'll see about upgrading to Mojave in the near future.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: DigiCorn on August 08, 2019, 01:34:59 PM
I am also running Mojave and our NAS server is an SMB share. I bookmarked this for some reason; can't really remember why. Maybe it will help?
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208209
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 08, 2019, 02:47:50 PM
Thanks Digicorn I'll have to check that out.

In the meantime, I've upgraded to Mojave. XMF works fine and everything else is working. I'm still unable to unzip files on the share. I've tried unzipping in the folder I drag into the smb (while on the smb) and I've tried in a folder I make new on the smb and neither works I get the same error.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 08, 2019, 03:28:44 PM
I assume you are double clicking the zip file to unzip which uses the Mac unarchiver or some such thing. Try downloading WinRAR and see if it will unzip it to the share:

https://www.rarlab.com/download.htm
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 08, 2019, 03:42:20 PM
Alright. I'll have to see how that works. I don't see an app in it. Do I need to use terminal to get it to work?

I am able to use Stuffit Expander on the share so I'll probably just need to switch to that.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 08, 2019, 04:02:17 PM
Oooh....sorry about that. Looks like that is command line only for the Mac OS. I'd use Stuffit since that is working for you.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 09, 2019, 12:12:13 PM
Well somethings work on SMB. I can't eject the shared volume without force ejecting it (which gives a warning that it may damage files on the share - yay). My coworker also can't delete things even though we use the same admin account on the network. It has full read and write access. We've tried different admin accounts as well with the same issues. I can generally delete stuff though.

Unmounting and remounting as AFP though, produces issues where PDFs generated out of XMF can't be opened properly in Acrobat. We get popups saying something about an invalid hex string of characters or something of that nature and it locks up Acrobat.

I've tried making a new user on the iMac and it has the exact same issues as the old iMac user so I know it isn't a corrupted user profile on the Macs. None of the Windows machines have any issues connecting or deleting files so they're good with their connections. I just don't know what to do.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 09, 2019, 12:13:52 PM
Edit: Now I don't have permission to delete things. This is so confusing.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 09, 2019, 12:29:29 PM
Here is what the PDF's show as errors on AFP.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 09, 2019, 12:54:54 PM
Edit: Now I don't have permission to delete things. This is so confusing.

I would go back into the NAS software and check your permissions on the shares, files and folders. Something has got to be wrong with them.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 09, 2019, 12:55:29 PM
Edit: Now I don't have permission to delete things. This is so confusing.

I would go back into the NAS software and check your permissions on the shares, files and folders. Something has got to be wrong with them.

Where are you seeing this. Are you sure the PDF is good? You can copy to your Mac and open it?
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: DigiCorn on August 09, 2019, 12:58:12 PM
Dumb question, but on the Windows server have you looked at the shared permissions and checked the box next to "Macintosh?"
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 09, 2019, 01:11:47 PM
Yeah we can copy to desktop and open them there. The same file opens just fine on SMB. We just can't delete stuff.

It's not a Windows server. its a LaCie 5Big NAS. The account we use is an admin account with Read/Write permissions. I've attached screenshots of the permissions windows. They are significantly more simple than a Windows server. The account we log in with is "ncg". I have tried this morning making new admin accounts and user accounts with read/write access and still same issues.

We did just get hit with yet another thunderstorm and our production manager is running over to Costco now to get a new battery backup as our server immediately shutdown (The battery backup display's that it is OK, but obviously is lying).
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 09, 2019, 01:21:21 PM
Have you changed any of those permissions recently? I ask because the files themselves may have different permissions. On a Mac you can change the permissions of a drive or folder but for it to change the permissions on all of the files and folders inside of that drive or folder you have to select the option to "Apply to enclosed items..." (see attached) I have no idea if you have that option on your NAS though.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 09, 2019, 01:26:56 PM
Edit: Now I don't have permission to delete things. This is so confusing.

I would go back into the NAS software and check your permissions on the shares, files and folders. Something has got to be wrong with them.

On this PDF with this error residing on your NAS drive...from you Mac...select the file and do a COMMAND+I. What does the Mac show under "Sharing and permissions"? Also do this for a file you cannot delete. What does it show there for "Sharing and permissions"?
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 09, 2019, 01:33:37 PM
Have you changed any of those permissions recently? I ask because the files themselves may have different permissions. On a Mac you can change the permissions of a drive or folder but for it to change the permissions on all of the files and folders inside of that drive or folder you have to select the option to "Apply to enclosed items..." (see attached) I have no idea if you have that option on your NAS though.

I'm unable to apply to enclosed items. It says I don't have permission to do so. Which confuses me as I'm logged in as an administrator.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 09, 2019, 01:36:46 PM
Edit: Now I don't have permission to delete things. This is so confusing.

I would go back into the NAS software and check your permissions on the shares, files and folders. Something has got to be wrong with them.

On this PDF with this error residing on your NAS drive...from you Mac...select the file and do a COMMAND+I. What does the Mac show under "Sharing and permissions"? Also do this for a file you cannot delete. What does it show there for "Sharing and permissions"?

On regular files, it shows my computer's login with Read & Write, a staff group with R&W, and an everyone group with R&W. On the files I can't delete, the staff group and the everyone group says Read Only. I was able to get rid of the file from the NAS OS web file browser. I couldn't delete the files via Mac with any user/admin account as well as on PC.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 09, 2019, 02:06:51 PM
I think you would need to setup users on the NAS using the same user name and password as the Mac admin accounts. For example for user ncg...I think if you had an admin user account on your mac named ncg and use the same password it may then work. But if your NAS user name is ncg and your mac user name is AaronH it may copy files from your Mac with differing permissions than ncg so when you try to delete the file while being logged in as ncg it won't let you because it has your AaronH permissions from your Mac? Clear as mud? LOL
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 09, 2019, 02:27:29 PM
I was testing that this morning. I created an ncg iMac admin account, then connected to the SMB share with the same credentials - no problem there. But I still couldn't delete things, couldn't open zips on the SMB (just to test it if it fixed that issue).

It's worth testing more though.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 09, 2019, 02:41:39 PM
So individual accounts don't work either. I've attached the permissions screenshots of the test folder in finder.

Weird thing is that it lets me unzip using the Mac archive utility, but doesn't actually do anything. No warning that it doesn't work, but it doesn't actually put the unzipped file anywhere.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 09, 2019, 03:22:04 PM
So this NAS used to work OK until the last NAS firmware update? Can you revert to the previous option? I'm guessing no. >:(
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 09, 2019, 03:25:07 PM
So this folder you posted this screen grab of (attached)...that is folder on the NAS that you created on the Mac and then copied over to the NAS? And these are the permissions that are showing when you click on the folder when it is on the NAS share and do a COMMAND+i on your Mac?
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 09, 2019, 03:29:20 PM
And what is the user name that you are logging into the NAS from the Mac?
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 09, 2019, 03:29:26 PM
So this NAS used to work OK until the last NAS firmware update? Can you revert to the previous option? I'm guessing no. >:(

Nope no going back.  :(
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 09, 2019, 03:31:40 PM
So this folder you posted this screen grab of (attached)...that is folder on the NAS that you created on the Mac and then copied over to the NAS? And these are the permissions that are showing when you click on the folder when it is on the NAS share and do a COMMAND+i on your Mac?

Somehow they were the same. I've changed it to now say read & write on all the things and will see if that changes anything.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 09, 2019, 03:33:15 PM
And what is the user name that you are logging into the NAS from the Mac?

We use the ncg user name to log into the Mac, either with SMB or AFP. The Macs have always been called imac1 and imac2. I don't know why that's just how they were setup a long time ago before I came aboard.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 09, 2019, 03:41:06 PM
OK from this screen grab info that you posted...what appears to be happening is:

imac1 has read and write access but you are trying to delete the file while logged into the NAS as ncg. But ncg does not have read and write access.

By default "everyone" is set to read only. You can probably change that to read and write and also click the button I mentioned earlier to apply to all enclosed objects or whatever it said. But this may become tiresome to have to keep doing this. The best option would be to have the NAS give read and write access to everyone. Not as secure but it works better. Unless you are working in high security job this is what I would try if the NAS has a setting for that.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 09, 2019, 03:43:38 PM
There may also be some kind of setting in your NAS to not copy file permissions when copying files to the NAS and to use the NAS permissions. If you have that setting that might be the best thing to try.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 09, 2019, 03:53:36 PM
Unfortunately I don't have a whole lot of options with this thing. Honestly it might be the worst system made for networking.

I can't edit everything to have read & write permissions. Finder tells me I don't have permission to do that.

I also can't do it from the server side. It's just a little box with 5 hard drives and a little linux OS by seagate called NAS OS. The only interface it has is a webpage you need to be local to access it and a little file browser built into the web interface that doesn't have permissions listed anywhere in it.

I am finding that every folder I make on this computer is set to staff and everyone as read only. Do you know how I can make the default new folder set to read & write?
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 09, 2019, 04:13:06 PM
Unfortunately I don't have a whole lot of options with this thing. Honestly it might be the worst system made for networking.

I can't edit everything to have read & write permissions. Finder tells me I don't have permission to do that.

I also can't do it from the server side. It's just a little box with 5 hard drives and a little linux OS by seagate called NAS OS. The only interface it has is a webpage you need to be local to access it and a little file browser built into the web interface that doesn't have permissions listed anywhere in it.

I am finding that every folder I make on this computer is set to staff and everyone as read only. Do you know how I can make the default new folder set to read & write?

Yeah I don't think Apple will let you do that. It would make your computer horribly insecure. I think what happened is the latest firmware instituted some new security updates and what worked before now is not.

What does your NAS software look like when creating a new share? Can you post a screen shot of it?
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 09, 2019, 04:42:59 PM
Ah ok.

Here are screenshots of making a new share.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 09, 2019, 05:29:01 PM
In that first screen grab...have you tried checking the box for 'public'. That would basically give everyone read & write access. Which is not secure but if it is on a closed network I would give it a shot.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 09, 2019, 05:30:37 PM
Same permissions issues on the new share. In windows we're seeing a Permissions are out of Order error when you try to view them. No user, admin or otherwise is able to change permissions or attempt to fix them.

I don't know what to do and Seagate's support page for this box and NAS OS are dead. I'm almost thinking we need new hardware.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 09, 2019, 05:32:24 PM
Even a new share with 'public' checked?
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 09, 2019, 05:36:35 PM
And have you had a look at this page?

https://www.lacie.com/support/software/apps/nas-os/

You may want to have a look at this page too:

https://www.seagate.com/manuals/network-storage/business-storage-nas-os-4/shares-access-and-transfer-files/
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 09, 2019, 05:46:23 PM
Even a new share with 'public' checked?

Yep. Its a no go.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 09, 2019, 05:47:44 PM
And have you had a look at this page?

https://www.lacie.com/support/software/apps/nas-os/

You may want to have a look at this page too:

https://www.seagate.com/manuals/network-storage/business-storage-nas-os-4/shares-access-and-transfer-files/

Yeah those are the manuals I've been using to figure this thing out. That's how the shares were setup too.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 09, 2019, 06:07:46 PM
Even a new share with 'public' checked?

Yep. Its a no go.

That is telling me something is wrong with your settings there. Might be that the firmware update hosed something. Will it let you apply the same firmware again? And I assume you have tried completely powering off the NAS and then starting back up since the firmware was initially installed?
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 12, 2019, 12:50:57 PM
I can't go back per say. Technically I can. You can download the firmware straight from LaCie, then you have to put it on a bootable thumb drive and power the NAS back up with the thumbdrive and a special USB key. That key is the big issue that puts a damper in things - I don't know where it is nor what it looks like. The also unfortunate thing, is that it wipes the NAS clean in doing so, and would need to be re-setup. That may not be too bad and may fix things. I downloaded the NAS firmware from before the update but I'll be talking to my production manager here and see what his thoughts are. He used to be a networking tech for a large grocery chain here in town several years back and he's been a big help besides you in figuring this out.

I'm also thinking about trying to figure out how to go back from Mojave. Our Font software claims it doesn't support Mojave, but runs on it. Also I've never had the Adobe programs freeze and lock up on me so much. Simple less than 1 MB PDFs lock up Acrobat like no other. I can't figure it out. Didn't Mojave come out a year ago? I'd think a month out before the next big release they'd have ironed out the bugs. Also, XMF is super blurry/pixellated on the 5k iMac monitor, everything else is super crisp, it's weird.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 12, 2019, 01:23:18 PM
Mojave: I've had to remove the free version of Linotype Font Explorer from the Macs we have running Mojave for the very reason of "Adobe programs freeze and lock up". Every time we would start Acrobat (and FileMaker Pro) the computer would become unresponsive for 3 minutes. Once you waited the 3 minutes for each one everything worked after that. Until you had to restart Acrobat for Filemaker Pro.

We also had the "super blurry/pixellated on the 5k iMac monitor" with Prinergy until we whined long enough to Kodak to fix their software. Software has to be coded to support 5K or you will see the fuzzies.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 12, 2019, 01:51:40 PM
We're using FontAgent Pro by Insider Software. It's a pretty nifty font management program. Unfortunately, version 7 doesn't support Mojave.

It's possible that XMF was blurry/pixellated on Sierra. I just didn't notice it because Mojave really crisps up the screen.

The only gripes I have are the blurry XMF (Which is Fuji's doing - Lack of updates/Not updating fast enough) & Acrobat taking forever to open PDFs and crashing a lot.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 12, 2019, 02:06:47 PM
We used font agent pro back in the day and switched to Linotype Font Explorer when it was free. Now we use the Users/~/Library/Fonts folder. ;D
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 12, 2019, 06:07:23 PM
I found a way to go back without a USB key. I'm getting it scheduled to power off tonight and downgrade the firmware to an older one that worked.

We used font agent pro back in the day and switched to Linotype Font Explorer when it was free. Now we use the Users/~/Library/Fonts folder. ;D

How frequently do you need to clean that folder out? I've noticed when we have a lot of fonts activated it slows the machines down a lot.

Edit: Also how does that handle duplicate fonts?
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 12, 2019, 07:19:19 PM
We have folders made for different jobs. Sort of like homemade font sets. Move the folder in the fonts folder when needed. Move them back out when we are done with that job.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 12, 2019, 07:20:30 PM
For fonts named exactly the same if you copy them into a folder that has a font named the same it will overwrite the old ones if you want. Takes care of duplicates that way. :)
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 13, 2019, 01:32:14 PM
Very interesting. Thanks Joe!
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on August 14, 2019, 01:50:26 PM
New question, not really sure if it needs a new topic or not...

Prepress folks, (not just Joe), do you work on your desktop and then copy files to a file server or do you just work off of the file server? If you do work off your desktop, when do you copy files to a file server? Inquisitive minds want to know.

Not saying there's a wrong way to do it, I just have a funny feeling we've been doing things "wrong" for, well, forever. I've pretty much been trained by the same guy (no bad will to him), at both shops (he got me the job to replace him at my current shop and had a hand in some of the training of the guy already here) so there's like zero training on using Pitstop correctly, color spaces and such, XMF training and what not. I've learned almost everything I know by trial and error. The one training I have actually had for real, was by a dude from the PACKZ company who came in to teach us to use it at the old shop. By the last day, I was showing him stuff and a month later he was offering me a job to work there. I turned it down because traveling for work doesn't really work well with my wife.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: born2print on August 14, 2019, 01:54:41 PM
Long time Prinergy users here, Mac workstations (except 1 PC for the 1 client that gives us a .pub once a year and occasional pdf from Word working better there)
Best practice per Kodak is to always serve fonts from local desktop, never from the server and we do that by copying fonts so they are with job also.
We usually do not bother to do that with anything else BUT sometimes I go to save an InDD file and it will refuse to overwrite the existing one on the server, so times like that I do work from desktop then manage files onto the server.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: scottrsimons on August 14, 2019, 02:03:29 PM
I've always worked for smaller shops, and the way they have worked, is you copy the job locally off the network. Work on job, and when you are done working on the job for the day, copy it back to the network. Then have Prinergy (or back in the day Evo or Brisque) find the files on the network to process. Never work off the network. And when I say never, I mean 90% of the time. Plus we use our local trash as a temp backup, which only deletes when needed. Only trash stuff that is older than 3 months or so (there is a process to do that), which has saved us in the past. That is why it is in practice now.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: david on August 14, 2019, 03:18:47 PM
I have always worked off the server, never had to copy files to my desktop to work them. Fonts are also on the server.

and, I use Prinergy, too.


YMMV

 :drunk3:
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: born2print on August 14, 2019, 03:31:20 PM
I am not surprised, published "best practices" can simply be "CYA"
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 14, 2019, 03:36:32 PM
Very interesting. Thanks Joe!

Just to add on the fonts issue...For InDesign jobs we use a 'Document Fonts' folder in the same location as the InDesign file. When you open the Indy files it finds the fonts in that folder. When you close the Indy files it takes the fonts with it. Using this method you don't have to move fonts around at all.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 14, 2019, 03:44:20 PM
Prinergy here also and we work directly from the Prinergy job folders which are on the network. We do use the 'Document Fonts' folder as described in the above post. Inside the Prinergy job folder there is a folder named UserDefinedFolder that Prinergy creates in every new job. We put the Indesign file in that folder and also the 'Links' folder in there and the Document Fonts folder in there. Works great. But if it is Quark or anything else we always load the fonts locally on the Mac.

I can tell if you ever contact Adobe or Quark tech support for any problem and you tell them you are working from the server they will automatically blame it on that.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: born2print on August 14, 2019, 03:56:29 PM
"I can tell if you ever contact Adobe or Quark tech support for any problem and you tell them you are working from the server they will automatically blame it on that."

Yep. CYA.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: born2print on August 14, 2019, 04:08:59 PM
In fact, to that point, we upgraded to Prinergy 8.2.1 and upped our OS to 10.14.5.
Kodak says 10.13 supported.
Everything was fine except "search" function did not work, and as you know that seemingly minor function is damn handy all day every day in many ways.
First service call they had us muck with the Hosts files on the macs - nope.
Second call they had us take a mac down to 10.13 stating we didn't follow published OS restriction - nope.
Third call i got the right tech and it was simply credentials on a server was still old (we redid our virtualized Tertiary around the same time and our IT thought they had fixed all that but missed one)
So it does give them an out from having to solve a tricky issue sometimes.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 14, 2019, 04:36:33 PM
Just don't upgrade your Macs to Catalina when it is released next month. Prinergy Workshop will run but VPS and Preps will not and Kodak has no timeline for when they will work. Also Prinergy 8.3 is compatible with OS X 10.14.x. I am planning to do that install soon due to an improvement made by Kodak for fonts that cause trapping failures.

Quote
August 13, 2019
KODAK PRINERGY products’ status with macOS Catalina (10.15)

macOS Catalina (10.15) will be released as a free update between September and November of 2019. Only 64-bit applications can be run as support for 32-bit applications has been dropped and applications developed under older native Mac OS X API’s such as Carbon are no longer supported.

At the release of macOS Catalina (10.15), the following applications will be supported running under 10.15:

    KODAK COLORFLOW Client 8.4.0

The following applications will not be immediately supported under 10.15, and require product updates to be compatible with 10.15:

    KODAK PRINERGY Workflow – Note that Workshop can be installed and run on macOS Catalina, however Virtual Proofing System (VPS), Preps, and Setup applications are not compatible with 10.15 at this time. VPS and Preps are vital components of the Prinergy workflow, and as such, this limitation means that Prinergy Workshop is not supported on 10.15.
    KODAK PREPS – Preps has not been updated to 64-bit as of the writing of this article. This means it is not compatible with macOS Catalina (10.15).
    KODAK PRINERGY EVO Workflow – The Prinergy Evo client is a native 32-bit application written in Carbon. It is not compatible with the 64-bit requirement in 10.15.
    KODAK PANDORA 8.4 – Pandora has been updated to 64-bit but an issue is under investigation relating to Java on this OS as of the writing of this article.
    KODAK PROOFING SOFTWARE for MATCHPRINT INKJET – KPS for MPI has not been updated to 64-bit as of the writing of this article. This means it is not compatible with macOS Catalina (10.15).

As products are updated to align with requirements for running under macOS Catalina (10.15), this information and the individual product release notes will be updated.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: born2print on August 14, 2019, 04:46:51 PM
8.3 scares me though, have to upgrade the servers OS and Kodak tech must be onsite...
How many years has it been since they actually sent techs onsite?! What are they afraid of?!?!
#frightened
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 14, 2019, 04:56:31 PM
I am already running Windows 2012 R2 server which it is supposed to work with though they do recommend Windows 2016 Server. I recommend myself to be a millionaire and that ain't happening so I am going to risk it with 2012 Server.

Yes they require an onsite tech to do OS upgrades and truthfully I would not want to try to do that myself. I mean I know I can install windows but getting Prinergy installed and working after that is the scary part.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: born2print on August 14, 2019, 05:05:45 PM
I htink we're gonna wait as long as possible, then do the full monty with 2016 server
I wish you luck though! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on August 14, 2019, 05:15:23 PM
I really, really, really need the font/trapping fix though.

 :gom:
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on November 25, 2019, 03:04:01 PM
So I think I may know why I have server issues. I can't find any .appledouble files of any kind on our server. I do have DS_Store files, but no .appledouble files - not even from when we were using AFP.

Is it possible to recreate those or am I toast?
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on November 25, 2019, 03:24:42 PM
You are talking about the files that start with a period right? Any file that starts with a period is a hidden file. You won't see them if you don't have the option to see hidden files. Are you sure they aren't there? On our NAS SMB shares we can't see them from the Mac because by default Macs can't see files that start with a period but I can them from Windows because files that start with a period are not hidden on Windows.

But if they were missing I don't think that would cause the issues you have been seeing.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on November 25, 2019, 03:38:34 PM
No I can't see them on the server interface, which is web based. I can see all kinds of other hidden files on it though.

Thats unfortunate that it wouldn't solve the issue if we had them.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on November 25, 2019, 03:47:59 PM
Do you have a windows computer you can create an SMB share just to try copying some files to and from the mac via SMB only and see if you still have these kinds of problems. If not then it is definitely in your NAS software.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on November 27, 2019, 03:04:03 PM
It is something with my NAS. Unfortunately I have no support to replace this system from management. I can copy and edit files on both windows and Mac SMB shares. For some reason my iMac still doesn't like AFP. I've attached a screenshot of the error I get when trying to open a PDF on the NAS if mounted via AFP. I don't get this issue with files from our FTP comp which is an older 2006 model iMac - the only issue there is to copy files to it (for proofing to customers if I can't get the file small enough to email), is that I usually have to hold the shortcut for copy when dragging icons (Holding the Option key).

I hate networking. I love trying to figure out why it doesn't work, but when I hit walls like this and can't get things to work right it drives me nuts.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on November 27, 2019, 03:54:41 PM
Probably different AFP between the NAS and the Mac.

Would it be an option to reset the NAS back to factory defaults, then make sure the firmware is up to date on it, reformat the drives and recreate the shares? You know....in your free time. :rotf:
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on November 27, 2019, 03:56:39 PM
Also I would be interested to know how AFP would work from your NAS to the FTP comp which is an older 2006 model iMac. If it works from there then it is an incompatibility between AFP on the NAS and the newer version of AFP on your newer Macs.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on November 27, 2019, 05:09:18 PM
That's an interesting idea. I'll have to check that out on the old iMac.

Yeah, that would definitely be an option to try when I feel like getting an extra day in... hmm...
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on November 27, 2019, 05:18:15 PM
Yep its an AFP version issue.

It works just fine with no problems on the older 2006 iMac.

My guess is with the security update in July messed with the AFP protocol on newer machines and our old LaCie NAS isn't getting that update too.

Very weird.

Edit... How many posts is ninja level... not that I'm trying to get there artificially or anything...  :ninja:
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on November 27, 2019, 05:43:33 PM
Ninja = 1,000 posts

Ninja Master = 5,000 posts

Supreme Ninja = 10,000 posts

Ninja Warlord = 25,000 posts
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on November 27, 2019, 06:00:56 PM
Yep its an AFP version issue.

It works just fine with no problems on the older 2006 iMac.

My guess is with the security update in July messed with the AFP protocol on newer machines and our old LaCie NAS isn't getting that update too.

Very weird.

Edit... How many posts is ninja level... not that I'm trying to get there artificially or anything...  :ninja:

My guess is that the problem with SMB is also an incompatibility between the SMB on the NAS and the newer Macs.

It would be a shame if that Lacie NAS suddenly died huh? :evil:
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on November 27, 2019, 06:38:52 PM
It would be a shame if that Lacie NAS suddenly died huh? :evil:

It would...  :evil:
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: DigiCorn on November 27, 2019, 08:02:04 PM
Ninja = 1,000 posts

Ninja Master = 5,000 posts

Supreme Ninja = 10,000 posts

Ninja Warlord = 25,000 posts

Just a post to see where I'm at...
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on December 10, 2019, 02:14:03 PM
Not sure if I should start a new topic or not, but I think it has something to do with SMB connections...

My co-worker has an external hdd of the last three years of job files, so I connect to his iMac quite frequently. How I connect is through finder on the sidebar under Network Locations. I've realized that they're connecting via SMB now instead of AFP and for whatever reason, I'm unable to search or spotlight or whatever it's called on SMB shares. No matter what I search for even if its in the window I'm looking at, it comes up with "0" items.

I have to manually type in to connect command+k then afp://imac2._afpovertcp._tcp.local

What's the deal with either issue? Why can't I search over SMB (on both the file server and my co-worker's iMac) and why can't I connect to another iMac via AFP by default?
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on December 10, 2019, 02:34:23 PM
Apple changed the default connection to SMB when they deprecated AFP.

No idea why you can't search SMB. All of our connections are SMB and we search all of the time. Using the Mac search sucks though so I use EasyFind (https://apps.apple.com/us/app/easyfind/id411673888?mt=12).
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on December 10, 2019, 05:20:54 PM
Thanks Joe, I'll give Easy Find a go.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on December 10, 2019, 08:05:33 PM
Ugh, now I'm having the same connection interruption I had when using AFP earlier this year. I can't seem to keep my SMB connection for very long. No one else in the building is having the issue.

I don't think I'm losing connection to the net/network itself. My music doesn't stop playing and I don't lose connection to other machines on the network, just the server. We'll now come to think about it I lose connection now to my co-worker's iMac quite frequently as well, but not the ancient iMac using AFP.

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on December 10, 2019, 08:34:16 PM
You know with the odd issues you are having how is your network configured. By that I mean what kind of ethernet cables, ie...cat5, cat5e, cat6? What kind of network switches? 10baseT, 100baseT, Gigabit? How old are the switches and cables?
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on December 11, 2019, 12:48:28 PM
I don't know how old things are per say. I know I've been here for 4 years and they're older than that. The network cables are all either CAT 5e or CAT 6 - the ones from the NAS to the switch and from the prepress iMacs are CAT 5e. We have a Comcast business router that is about 3.5 years old and the switch is a gigabit Netgear 48 port switch - no idea what model it is, the sticker that should have model information just has a MAC address and Serial Number. Some other numbers but none of them mention Model Number.

Edit... Now that I think about it, I'm going to try using WiFi instead of Ethernet. I can't rule out my ethernet cable.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: david on December 11, 2019, 02:23:05 PM
is your mac plugged into a phone by any chance?
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: DigiCorn on December 11, 2019, 02:25:28 PM
...or is it defaulting to wifi?
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on December 11, 2019, 05:33:29 PM
is your mac plugged into a phone by any chance?

No phone connected to it.

...or is it defaulting to wifi?

Nope. If I have the Ethernet cable in, I make sure wifi is turned off. If I have Wifi on, I have to manually tell it what IP address, subnet mask and router information it should have otherwise websites won't load - the router gives my Mac a 169.xxx.xxx.xxx IP address. The router seems to do that to any Mac or smart phone made after 2016 or with a 10.10+ macOS.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on December 11, 2019, 06:47:31 PM
You should be able to tell your router what IP address and range to use for DHCP.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on December 11, 2019, 08:12:42 PM
I do have it setup that way. DHCP numbers are free from 192.168.0.70-200. For some reason, newer Macs and smartphones have an issue with this router and have to be manually set for IPv4. The router is assigning IPv6 just fine, but it won't assign IPv4 and it seems as though if you don't have a v4 address, you can't browse the internet or network.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on December 11, 2019, 09:54:55 PM
Your ISP has to have IPv6 enabled and supported to use it and you have to configure it on the Mac to match the settings your ISP uses.

That is weird that it isn't handing out IP's correctly to the Mac and Phones. Is your router the "Comcast business router" that you mentioned previously and if so is it an actual router or just a cable modem. If it is a cable modem I can see why it may not be handing out IP's correctly. You really should have a normal router between your cable modem and your network for security purposes. I know with my Charter/Spectrum modem there is no firewall security at all in it. My cable modem plugs into my regular modem that does have firewall/security to protect my network for what lurks on the public side of the internet. Maybe your "Comcast business router" does but just asking because of the weird network issues you are experiencing. Should look something like this:

(https://www.lifewire.com/thmb/_REdK6YF9Pxk8i2A2Y9tKqsSBDc=/640x400/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/wired-diagram-1-58073d313df78cbc28f5bca6.jpg)

The Ethernet router above would actually connect into your gigabit Netgear 48 port switch which would then connect to your devices. The Ethernet router would be the one handing out DHCP addresses and not the cable modem. Also if you have more than one device on your network that has a built in DHCP server in it you should disable all DHCP servers but one.

I may be way off base on your network config but it is doing some weird stuff.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on December 12, 2019, 01:30:32 PM
Its a Cable Modem/Router Combo Unit. It has it's own firewall and everything. Its the only thing handing out DHCP IP addresses too. It has 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz Wifi channel thingies too and can support two phone lines (though we don't use the phone line part).

So far, being on Wifi is helping with the network volumes ejecting randomly. I haven't had one drop connection since I switched to Wifi yesterday. Normally on Ethernet, I drop 1-3 times a day. Not helpful when my comp is the one running the cloud backup software for the server. My NAS can't backup to all cloud services, just Amazon, Google, Yandex and a few others, but those are all much more expensive per GB than CrashPlan. Crashplan's just $10 and the others are pay per GB/TB and with 6+TB of data, we'd rack up a good sized bill pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: Joe on December 12, 2019, 02:11:30 PM
Maybe see if you can get Comcast to replace it with a new one because some weird things are happening on your network.
Title: Re: Mac not refreshing finder windows on SMB Share
Post by: AaronH on December 12, 2019, 04:24:45 PM
Not a bad idea.