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General Prepress / Re: ICC question
« Last post by baker7 on August 23, 2019, 12:52:50 PM »
Thanks for the reply guys.  We do strip the ICC profiles from the customers' files, but we have to get the final product to match their colors exactly that come out of their printers.  (We get a sample printout from them that we heat press on a poly fabric - even this causes variation but negligible.)

So from the jpg file I get from them I print from our printer, heat press on fabric and compare it to the customer's sample.  Then I go into photoshop and tweek the curves to try and match exactly.  Then I make the plates and pressman tries to get the colors up to match yet again.  During this process I go back into photoshop and tweek curves and replace certain plates when there's no way to match with ink. 

I guess the problem lies with calibrating the curves.  The $500 guy tweeked the CTP curve using this color reading gadget from the test file printed from our printer.  And our CTP curve is definitely not linear.  I guess that explains why for example cyan darks are too dark and lights are too light on some files and flip flopped on other files. 

Another problem is lot of our customers are using the badly tweeked printer calibration profile in their digital printers.  Adding to that they don't use the same amount of ink as us.  They crank it up like 200% because their customers want bright vibrant colors and there's no way we can go that high from the files they give us.  We have to do it in offset by pouring tons of ink which screws up all the other colors so that I have to bring the colors way down so that it lines up.


Anyway thanks for the refresh on where our problem lies.  So in short we're screwed... until we get a linear curve from our printer to match the CTP.  We've been trying to match the CTP to our printer

General Prepress / Re: Hey guys! I'm back!!
« Last post by Tracy on August 23, 2019, 11:56:14 AM »
Welcome Back!
General Prepress / Re: ICC question
« Last post by Joe on August 23, 2019, 09:34:38 AM »
I guess my first question is what are you trying to match your press with? A proof supplied by your customer? A proof you make? Or heaven forbid someone's monitor? Basically a hard copy proof (printer) has to be calibrated to match your press and not the other way around. So if it is a customer proof good luck with that as you have no control over their printer. If it is your proof (printer) at least you have control over that. But you certainly aren't going to get that done by someone else for $500. Basically the steps needed to match a press to a hard copy proof is to run a test page such as the G7 test files on the press. Then you have to take readings from the test run and use the printer calibration software to input the data into the software and make a hard copy proof and compare it to what was run on press. You would probably need to do this more than once to get the printer dialed in to match the press. This is kind of over-simplified here and you have to know what your are doing and your company has to be willing to take the time, money, and materials to make it happen. IMO it is better left to hiring a color professional to do this.

As far as "$500 to calibrate a CTP curve to match our offset". Usually what you want is a linear plate, though not a must, where the values of the input data is matched by the output of the plate. Then I think what you mean by the CTP curve is a calibration curve used to allow for dot gain as an offset press can have dot gain anywhere from 10% gain to 25%+ gain depending on the paper being used. A coated high glossy paper will have less dot gain than for, example, uncoated newsprint which acts like a sponge.

(And I agree with JohnO...strip out any ICC profiles used by your customers. Customers have no idea what they are doing and for sure any profiles they use are not going to make your press magically match some proof from somewhere)
General Prepress / Re: ICC question
« Last post by JohnO on August 23, 2019, 09:30:48 AM »
For our 4-color proofing and the 4-color Komori press, we calibrate those using the GRACoLCoated1_ISO12647-7_ControlStrip2009. The plates are curved for the press to match that GRACoL industry standard. We strip out any profiles in the customer files.

This way, our jobs should print looking the same as they would at any other shop in the country using that standard.

Make sure your platesetter and press aren't "drifting" which makes them a moving target to try to hit. Chemicals in the developer, blankets or different/inconsitent ink densities at the press, are different ways in which your target could drift.
General Prepress / ICC question
« Last post by baker7 on August 23, 2019, 08:50:12 AM »
Good morning~

Coming back to printing after a hiatus I'm amazed at how little I knew about what I was doing. Yet I'm amazed at how little I still don't know and why my boss would call me back.  Anyway I'm in sublimation and I just learned there's something called an ICC.

I think that's what's making our colors come out all wacky because we don't use the embedded profile from our clients' images when proofing on digital printer. And when it goes out to our offset colors are off. Did that make any sense?

We just paid our ink supplier $500 to calibrate a CTP curve to match our offset but it's still off. So I have to go back to the file in Photoshop and tweek curves, burn plates and hope for the best.

My question still is is this normal? Seems for every job I have to tweek the curves a different way, thus no consistency. I'm guessing ICC is the culprit?  It would make life so much easier to have the colors come out the same as the file and eliminate the tweeking part of it!

Sometimes it takes us 3-5 hours on a single job just color matching and production comes to a halt! All the paper, ink and time wasted!
General Prepress / Re: Hey guys! I'm back!!
« Last post by baker7 on August 22, 2019, 11:23:10 PM »
LOL.. you guys make me smile.  First time really smiling since coming back to work here a month ago.
General Prepress / Re: Hey guys! I'm back!!
« Last post by Slappy on August 22, 2019, 11:17:54 PM »
Welcome back! Can't say a lot has changed since your last exit, we’re all a little older & certainly more bitter.

Mmmmmmmm, printing!  :banana: :drunk3: :shoots_self:
General Prepress / Re: Winmail.dat attachments
« Last post by DPSprint on August 22, 2019, 08:41:49 PM »
yeap, use it regularly with certain clients!
General Prepress / Re: Hey guys! I'm back!!
« Last post by DigiCorn on August 22, 2019, 07:25:52 PM »
you try to get out, and they pull you back in
General Prepress / Re: Hey guys! I'm back!!
« Last post by Possum on August 22, 2019, 04:43:20 PM »
We love it when people come back.  :hello:
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