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Topic: Screen PTR-4100  (Read 18754 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Screen PTR-4100

Reply #30
So, aside from my own unwitting sabotage, the machine works.


The line IS the page edge being rendered somehow. The preview window on the RIP and on the Tiff catcher do NOT show anything.
If I rotate the image(90 or 180), the line follows to the trailing edge. I'm trying work it out without having to set all my files up to the plate size.
I wouldn't mind if I could configure the RIP to "impose" the image onto a page that equals the plate size, but I haven't figured out how to do this.


Harlequin 8.0 RIP from RTI. The impo options are simple Harlequin options.
Any ideas?

Re: Screen PTR-4100

Reply #31

Any ideas?


Go directly to the bar after work today. I'll meet you there around 5:30.
Hicks • Cross • Carlin • Kinison • Parker • Stone •  Colbert • Hedberg • Stanhope • Burr

"As much as I'd like your guns I prefer your buns." - The G

So,  :drunk3: i send the job to the rip with live transparecy (v 1.7 or whatever) and it craps out with a memory error.

Member #14 • Size 5 • PH8 Unit 7 • Paranoid Misanthropic Doomsayer • Printing & Drinking Since 1998 • doomed ©2011 david


Re: Screen PTR-4100

Reply #33
Being that the line is going the x direction, I doubt it has to do with the optics, as the drum rotates on the other axis. Normally dirty optics or laser problems will be the y direction, with the rotation of the drum. Also, you're thermal and I assume you're running positive plates. The laser is exposing the background, which in turn falls off in the processor. The image left on the plate is where the laser did not fire. This means the line you have is not getting exposed. This can be from an actual image, like the 1-bit tiffs you are sending to it. It may be a minor discrepancy between your imposed size and the device size defined in the harlequin... this would leave a tiny area that the laser didn't know what to do with, so it would just not fire, which would leave image.

We have ours set to full image, due to our Harris press, so it exposes right over the clamps. You can see where the image plate is struck between the clamps, as the image falls off but it leaves image in the shape of clamps where the clamps are. 
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

Re: Screen PTR-4100

Reply #34
Have you tried opening the one-bit tiff in Photoshop to see if the line is in it?
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra | Prinergy 7.5 | Adobe Creative Cloud 2017 | Two Luscher XPose 160 CTP units

Prepress: One who does precision guess work based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

Re: Screen PTR-4100

Reply #35
Ya, I looked at his picture again. Can't be laser or optics, it's going the wrong direction. Could be on the tiff but I have seen similar things with a 1mm size discrepancy. It's kind of like there's a super tiny gap where the lasers aren't quite sure what to do, so they just don't fire. It should error out and give an incorrect file size but doesn't always.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

Re: Screen PTR-4100

Reply #36

Ya, I looked at his picture again. Can't be laser or optics, it's going the wrong direction. Could be on the tiff but I have seen similar things with a 1mm size discrepancy. It's kind of like there's a super tiny gap where the lasers aren't quite sure what to do, so they just don't fire. It should error out and give an incorrect file size but doesn't always.



I was thinking along the same lines (pun intended) as you. That the Platesetter has some discrepancy that it just decides to image.
However, we are running a negative plate (Fuji Ecomaxx-T.), not positive.
I'm continuing to check my settings to see if there is anything off, but nothing yet.

Re: Screen PTR-4100

Reply #37
If it is in the ripped/screened one bit tiff than it is in the RIP. If it is not in the tiff than it is coming from the platesetter.
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra | Prinergy 7.5 | Adobe Creative Cloud 2017 | Two Luscher XPose 160 CTP units

Prepress: One who does precision guess work based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

Re: Screen PTR-4100

Reply #38
Oh cool... that is a no-chemical, processless plate, right? We have been talking about going to that. How do the press guys like them?

Nevertheless... it is still at the edge of your defined sheet, as imposed for plate. I have run a harlequin back in the film days but am not familiar with the workflow as far as the ripping and imposition stages these days. I doubt you will see that line upon viewing the 1-bit tiffs... I still fell like it's an anomaly in the software. Again, I have had laser stripes and printhead glitches and the stripes always run with the direction of drum rotation, not parallel to the clamps.

Are you sending imposed press sheet size 1-bit tiffs and letting the Raster Blaster dictate setback or are you sending full plate-sized tiffs to the RB out of imposition? Most workflows are doing the latter. If, for example, you're sending a 19x25 1-bit tiff to the RB plate queue and letting the RB put it in place on the plate by using margins (found in RB Device Config>Settings), then that is probably where the problem is. If you're sending full plate-size tiffs and not able to see the line in a scaled tiff, then you have a real strange problem.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

Re: Screen PTR-4100

Reply #39

Oh cool... that is a no-chemical, processless plate, right? We have been talking about going to that. How do the press guys like them?

Nevertheless... it is still at the edge of your defined sheet, as imposed for plate. I have run a harlequin back in the film days but am not familiar with the workflow as far as the ripping and imposition stages these days. I doubt you will see that line upon viewing the 1-bit tiffs... I still fell like it's an anomaly in the software. Again, I have had laser stripes and printhead glitches and the stripes always run with the direction of drum rotation, not parallel to the clamps.

Are you sending imposed press sheet size 1-bit tiffs and letting the harlequin dictate setback or are you sending full plate-sized tiffs to the harlequin out of imposition? Most workflows are doing the latter. If, for example, you're sending a 19x25 1-bit tiff to the plate queue and letting the device config put it in place on the plate, then that is probably where the problem is. If you're sending full plate-size tiffs and not able to see the line in a scaled tiff, then you have a real strange problem.


I doubt it too but it's an easy way to tell if it is the RIP or the imager.
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra | Prinergy 7.5 | Adobe Creative Cloud 2017 | Two Luscher XPose 160 CTP units

Prepress: One who does precision guess work based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

Re: Screen PTR-4100

Reply #40
Indeed it is. He can at least eliminate one variable.

I just modified that last post after re-reading the thread and seeing he is using a Raster Blaster tiff catcher. I have seen people send sheet size to raster blaster and use margins in the Dev Config... they often get strange little problems like this.

I always configure Raster Blaster queues to the plate size with no margin and impose full plate-sized tiffs in the workflow. Makes bigger tiffs but you know any problem like this has to be in the imposition before the tiff is sent to Raster Blaster.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

 

Re: Screen PTR-4100

Reply #41
Also used to get weird problems because of math/measurement discrepancies between Preps, Raster Blaster and the Platesetter. Had to go through and tweak dimensions by fractional increments in Preps when we first installed the platesetter.

Example: My Hantscho Heatset Plates...

Platesetter
W - 978mm
H - 658mm

Raster Blaster
W - 977.9mm
H - 657.32mm

Preps
W - 975.36mm
H - 656.844mm

See, weird discrepancies.  :huh: Only way it would work tho. Again, if one were sending sheet sized tiffs to Raster Blaster instead of plate size, I can see how you would easily get strange lines and such. Just a thought.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

Re: Screen PTR-4100

Reply #42
Agreed. On our old raster blaster we did the same thing. Everything to plate size. If he is using sheet size that could explain the line where it is missing imaging that portion of the plate. Make it plate size and there is no chance of that.
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra | Prinergy 7.5 | Adobe Creative Cloud 2017 | Two Luscher XPose 160 CTP units

Prepress: One who does precision guess work based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

Re: Screen PTR-4100

Reply #43

Agreed. On our old raster blaster we did the same thing. Everything to plate size. If he is using sheet size that could explain the line where it is missing imaging that portion of the plate. Make it plate size and there is no chance of that.



Thanks, guys. I'm thinking the same thing. We did some tests yesterday and found some strange things.
I configured the device settings in RB to the exact dimensions of the plate to be used, but RB will display a setting that is fractionally different.
For example, our ABDick runs a 335mm x 485mm plate, RB displays 335.001 x 484.998.


I get similar results with the Komori settings, different size of course.
I'll try running page size same as plate size to see if that indeed isolates the issue to the Platesetter.

Re: Screen PTR-4100

Reply #44
Page size same as plate size does not work.
I get an error that the image is too large for the media.


For now I'm just using a deletion pen to remove the line after developing.
Oh, yeah, I'm using our old Fuji plate developer with 50/50 fountain solution/water mix to "pre-develope" the plate prior to press. Works well.
We are usually a few weeks ahead of the presses around here, so this allows me to keep the work flow going without having to worry about when the press guys are able to get to any specific job. Lots of preempted "emergency" type stuff tends to get in the way. Our shop is built upon exceptions. But thats another thread topic.