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Author Topic: My fellow geeks, I need PC building advice  (Read 6034 times)

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Offline Slappy

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Re: My fellow geeks, I need PC building advice
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2016, 10:52:24 AM »
Yeah, closed loop watercooling is the idi0t's way to go. Corsair makes some nice relatively cheap systems but honestly, unless you're overclocking, I find it to be an unnecessary expense. I agree with Joe about the i5 processors too, plenty powerful for most games unless, again, you're into having an eXtrEmE Build and then the i7 takes over.
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Offline Farabomb

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Re: My fellow geeks, I need PC building advice
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2016, 11:08:50 AM »
Dammit, I was leaning on the i7 because of cache and more unlocked CPU options. My present computer isn't overclocked only because I'm happy It's playing nice. It's developed a pause in the bootup for some unknown reason. Quickboot is on but there is a obvious change from how fast it used to boot. This was present before the 6Tb drive so I doubt it's that. I may get bored and OC it a little bit. All the hardware in it is up to the task, I just have to remember what all the BIOS settings actually do.

I know I won't need it but if I don't get a board and chip that doesn't have overclocking I'm going to be mad at myself. Same with the watercooling but I'm still on the fence. Since it will be parked behind my TV I won't see it so the window and pretty tubing. I'm presently aircooling and it's quiet enough though the thermalright block is the size of a honda civic radiator. I will have to take a look at my options for both types of cooling and decide.
Speed doesn't kill, rapidly becoming stationary is the problem

I'd rather have stories told than be telling stories of what I could have done.

Quote from: Ear date=1459965256 link=msg=278846
Quote from: Farabomb date=1459964381 link=msg=278844
It's more like grip, grip, grip, noise, then spin and 2 feet in and feel shame.
I once knew a plus-sized girl and this pretty much describes teh secks. :rotf:
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
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Offline Farabomb

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Re: My fellow geeks, I need PC building advice
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2016, 02:58:22 PM »
Yeah, after doing the math I'm not going to go with water. I would been to cool the CPU and GPU and the blocks alone puts me over even the most robust air solution. Maybe if I'm feeling frisky I'll dig through my boxes of computer crap and get a system together for my old rig. That came from the factory with a waterblock on the NB and I know I have a few CPU blocks laying around.

Holy shit you can spend some money on MBs now. After perusing the ASUS site and saying neat a whole bunch of times I googled the model numbers. I've spent $250+ on boards before but $500+? Damn that's expensive. I could remember back when manufacturers didn't give 2 shits about overclocking and specialty boards were few and far between. Yeah, this is going to take a few months to sort out.
Speed doesn't kill, rapidly becoming stationary is the problem

I'd rather have stories told than be telling stories of what I could have done.

Quote from: Ear date=1459965256 link=msg=278846
Quote from: Farabomb date=1459964381 link=msg=278844
It's more like grip, grip, grip, noise, then spin and 2 feet in and feel shame.
I once knew a plus-sized girl and this pretty much describes teh secks. :rotf:
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
         —Benjamin Franklin

My other job

Offline Joe

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Re: My fellow geeks, I need PC building advice
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2016, 05:18:46 PM »
Quote from: Farabomb date=1483041502 link=msg=286984

Yeah, after doing the math I'm not going to go with water. I would been to cool the CPU and GPU and the blocks alone puts me over even the most robust air solution. Maybe if I'm feeling frisky I'll dig through my boxes of computer crap and get a system together for my old rig. That came from the factory with a waterblock on the NB and I know I have a few CPU blocks laying around.

Holy shit you can spend some money on MBs now. After perusing the ASUS site and saying neat a whole bunch of times I googled the model numbers. I've spent $250+ on boards before but $500+? Damn that's expensive. I could remember back when manufacturers didn't give 2 shits about overclocking and specialty boards were few and far between. Yeah, this is going to take a few months to sort out.


And by the time you get it sorted it will have all changed yet again! :banghead:
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Offline Farabomb

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Re: My fellow geeks, I need PC building advice
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2016, 08:51:35 AM »
I've kicked over some info that bothers me. The current intel desktop chip, sky lake, will only have win7 and 8.1 support for about a year. The new one coming down the pipe, kaby lake, will only be supported by windows 10. It's mainly the security updates that are the problem. I believe it will run 7/8.1 but will not be secure.

I also ran across some of my tinfoil hat buddies that insist the NSA paid M$ to have their own spyware baked into windows 10. Now even for me I think that's a bit of a stretch but I also wouldn't put it past them. Here's a little article that pulls out the part of the ToS that says we're spying on you and if we think you're doing anything naughty we're going to tell on you. I know people will say they don't have anything to hide but with laws changing as quick as they do, you could be breaking laws and not even know it.

There is DDR4 that's going to become mainstream soon, the new kaby lake chip and probably 5 other things I haven't read about yet that will change in the time it takes me to decide. That or I'm just going to use the apple IIgs that's sitting at mom's house.
Speed doesn't kill, rapidly becoming stationary is the problem

I'd rather have stories told than be telling stories of what I could have done.

Quote from: Ear date=1459965256 link=msg=278846
Quote from: Farabomb date=1459964381 link=msg=278844
It's more like grip, grip, grip, noise, then spin and 2 feet in and feel shame.
I once knew a plus-sized girl and this pretty much describes teh secks. :rotf:
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
         —Benjamin Franklin

My other job

Offline Joe

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Re: My fellow geeks, I need PC building advice
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2016, 09:32:28 AM »
Doing a copy and find of that articles 'excerpt' from Windows 10 Terms of Service to the actual MICROSOFT SOFTWARE LICENSE TERMS does not find anything like that in their Terms of Service. There are more fake news stories out there about Windows 10 TOS than there was about the election.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm

Their terms of service are no more invasive than Apple's, Linux's, or Android's. Probably less invasive than Androids.
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Offline Joe

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Re: My fellow geeks, I need PC building advice
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2016, 09:45:15 AM »
Also I think on the subject of Security Updates for Skylake or any other processor is based upon the end support date of the OS by Microsoft. For Windows 7 that is in January 14, 2020. For Windows 8.1 that is January 10, 2023. On those days support will end for any and all chips that were ever supported.
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Offline Farabomb

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Re: My fellow geeks, I need PC building advice
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2016, 10:27:51 AM »
I've read different but that does not mean it's true. Yes, the OS has a end of support date of 2023 but
Quote
Although Windows 7 will continue to receive updates until 2020, and Windows 8 until 2023, and in spite of the fact that these versions of Windows run quite happily on Skylake processors, Microsoft is discontinuing support for these versions of Windows on Skylake on July 17, 2017


I'm reading that as anyone running new chips and old OS are out of luck next year. It's going to be a race case seeing as most running new hardware is running new OSes but for people like me that prefer to stick with what I know, are left out in the cold. That just means there will seen be more unsecured bot nodes to be used in future election swings.

I know we can't all live in the past. I got a bit miffed when I opened the case on my workstation last night night and found 2 IDE drives not even hooked up. It was because they couldn't be, there is only one IDE channel and the system drive and optical was on it. I was planning on using that as a media server so now I just have to dig through the piles of drives for some SATA ones. Also found another core 2 duo system I forgot someone gave me. I really, really don't throw out anything. I'd bet there is a 486 MB and AT PSU sitting at mom's house.
Speed doesn't kill, rapidly becoming stationary is the problem

I'd rather have stories told than be telling stories of what I could have done.

Quote from: Ear date=1459965256 link=msg=278846
Quote from: Farabomb date=1459964381 link=msg=278844
It's more like grip, grip, grip, noise, then spin and 2 feet in and feel shame.
I once knew a plus-sized girl and this pretty much describes teh secks. :rotf:
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
         —Benjamin Franklin

My other job

Offline Joe

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Re: My fellow geeks, I need PC building advice
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2016, 10:40:15 AM »
I wasn't aware MS was doing that with the Skylake. If it makes you feel any better they actually moved that date to 2018:

Microsoft pushes back Windows 7 and 8 on Skylake support cut-off date from 2017 to 2018

Quote
Despite the inevitable outpouring of grief and anger, this is actually a really good move for Microsoft, and an even better move for consumers. It will increase security, and ensure that older versions of Windows are put to pasture when they really ought to.


Yeah I know you like Win 7 and want to stick with it. I'm used to Win 10 now . It is not a bad OS but I can't tell you how it is with high end gaming since I don't use it for that. But it is pretty solid performance and security wise for everyday stuff. I know since I have upgraded the PC's at work to Win 10 there are fewer cases of malware infection than there were when they were running Windows 7. And I know it isn't because those people using it got any smarter. :sarcasm:

Another problem you might run into with a new motherboard is that it may not come with Win 7 system board drivers.
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Offline Farabomb

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Re: My fellow geeks, I need PC building advice
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2016, 10:53:44 AM »
The main reason I don't like 10 is the rumor of it deleting files it deems as illegal. I don't like the thought of it being able to delete files without my consent. What if it's a false positive? What if it's a project I'm working on. It's just as possible that it's just a rumor as well. I believe you can shut down a few services like cortina and it removes it's ability. I'm also stuck with having to buy the pro version of 10 just so I can choose when to apply updates. It may not seem like a big deal to most that have access to big fat data pipes and new hardware. Me up in the woods on crappy DSL and old hardware means I have to wait hours before I can use my damn computer again.

I do get it though, most users are id10ts and need all the help they can get. I understand the backwards compatibility thing about new chips. You can't progress if you have to make it work with old hardware. It causes instability and security holes that can be exploited. I still don't want to learn a new damn OS but I will be building 2 new ones so I can play around with new OSes and learn. 
Speed doesn't kill, rapidly becoming stationary is the problem

I'd rather have stories told than be telling stories of what I could have done.

Quote from: Ear date=1459965256 link=msg=278846
Quote from: Farabomb date=1459964381 link=msg=278844
It's more like grip, grip, grip, noise, then spin and 2 feet in and feel shame.
I once knew a plus-sized girl and this pretty much describes teh secks. :rotf:
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
         —Benjamin Franklin

My other job

Offline Joe

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Re: My fellow geeks, I need PC building advice
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2016, 11:13:52 AM »
I've never seen Windows delete any of my files. Are you saying if someone got on your PC and lets say copied a library full of MP3's to your computer without your knowledge that Win 10 will delete them? I don't think it will do that but correct me if I am wrong.

It does disable some programs if it deems them outdated, security risks, etc...but it does not delete them. It just moves them elsewhere but only on major updates.

Windows 10 May Delete Your Programs Without Asking
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Offline Farabomb

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Re: My fellow geeks, I need PC building advice
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2016, 11:20:58 AM »
I got my info on that one from the general of the tinfoil hat brigade. I also remember Digi yelling that after an install of 10 things were missing. It could just be that it was disabled and hidden and I'd have no issue with that. I have some old games I own and I use no CD hacks on them mainly because I've lived through 2 floods and a fire so things are gone or in a box somewhere. I'd be pissed if those got deleted and I'd have to buy them again just to play them.

I did scan that article yesterday, I may have to give it read today.
Speed doesn't kill, rapidly becoming stationary is the problem

I'd rather have stories told than be telling stories of what I could have done.

Quote from: Ear date=1459965256 link=msg=278846
Quote from: Farabomb date=1459964381 link=msg=278844
It's more like grip, grip, grip, noise, then spin and 2 feet in and feel shame.
I once knew a plus-sized girl and this pretty much describes teh secks. :rotf:
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
         —Benjamin Franklin

My other job

Offline Joe

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Re: My fellow geeks, I need PC building advice
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2016, 11:27:22 AM »
It could be they won't run on Win 10 and you would have to buy them again, updated version for Win 10, anyway. Which is I guess another reason to stick with Win 7 if they are still running on it. Personally I think if you want to stick with Win 7 it may be wise to not go with the latest, greatest MB and CPU. Like I mentioned earlier...the latest and greatest probably don't include system drivers for Win 7 or 8 anyway.
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Offline Farabomb

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Re: My fellow geeks, I need PC building advice
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2016, 11:34:31 AM »
I keep looking at a core 2 Quad but in LGA775, they're not cheap. Maybe a haswell chip on the best board from 3 years ago chock full of RAM might work. It's got to be cheaper than what I'm looking at.
Speed doesn't kill, rapidly becoming stationary is the problem

I'd rather have stories told than be telling stories of what I could have done.

Quote from: Ear date=1459965256 link=msg=278846
Quote from: Farabomb date=1459964381 link=msg=278844
It's more like grip, grip, grip, noise, then spin and 2 feet in and feel shame.
I once knew a plus-sized girl and this pretty much describes teh secks. :rotf:
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
         —Benjamin Franklin

My other job

Offline Joe

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Re: My fellow geeks, I need PC building advice
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2016, 11:48:47 AM »
Quote from: Farabomb date=1483115671 link=msg=286995

I keep looking at a core 2 Quad but in LGA775, they're not cheap. Maybe a haswell chip on the best board from 3 years ago chock full of RAM might work. It's got to be cheaper than what I'm looking at.


Yeah it sucks but when you want older hardware the price is at a premium. SCSI drives are really expensive right now. ;D
Mac OS 10.14.3 Mojave | Prinergy 8.2 | Adobe Creative Cloud 2019 | Two Luscher XPose 160 CTP units

Prepress: One who does precision guess work based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.