p01 Kansas City Southern
Skip to main content

Recent Topics

xx
InDesign Export to .txt
by Tracy
Today at 04:54:48 PM

clip

xx
Only took 30 years
by Skryber
Today at 02:47:25 PM

xx
Metal Plate Hanging Tab Thingies
by Farabomb
Today at 02:23:14 PM

xx
Preflight for black text
by Tracy
Today at 12:13:02 PM

xx
Need a good scanner for Mac High Sierra
by DPSprint
October 16, 2018, 09:26:03 PM

clip

xx
Xmpie or Fusion Pro
by pspdfppdfxhd
October 15, 2018, 02:09:06 PM

xx
Acrobat excessive RAM usage
by Joe
October 12, 2018, 06:20:51 PM

xx

xx
Mac Email Client
by Joe
October 11, 2018, 02:01:39 PM

Topic: Creative Cloud fonts (Read 2745 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Creative Cloud fonts

Reply #15
:rotf:  good ol Frailer.

And agreed. I rarely ever open client Indy files, unless it needs a major overhaul, in which case I usually refer them to a designer... ain't got time for that shit these days.

To contrast my "bad adobe" comment, I will say Good Adobe, for making PDF stable and workable, for the most part. Love the PDF APPE workflow! Fonts? Oh, they're embedded.  8)

You must not have the latest APPE. Being embedded in no way assures you of no font problems with the latest version.
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra | Prinergy 7.5 | Adobe Creative Cloud 2017 | Two Luscher XPose 160 CTP units

Prepress: One who does precision guess work based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

Re: Creative Cloud fonts

Reply #16
I am running the most current Sierra release... they said it had the latest APPE, as of December 2016. I have not encountered any font problems but I use extensive EnFocus preflight and embedded preflights, profiles and actions in the workflow... they may be handling potential problems for me, in the background.

Another thing I am doing this year (since the update) is bouncing any and all PDFs I receive that are less than PDF 1.7. I do have random problems, especially since the update, with PDF 1.4. Maybe that is part of the problem for those who are having trouble? Think about it, new CC, new APPE... PDF 1.4 is ancient.

I also noticed Photoshop now has a PDF 1.7+ that actually does a decent job of keeping fonts vector. It never really worked right, prior to this update. NOT that I like seeing type set in Photoshop, but I can help the doofs a little more now.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

Re: Creative Cloud fonts

Reply #17
The version of APPE that shipped with Prinergy 7.5 and later is the problem. Kodak claims that Adobe tightened up the 'font security' in the version. I know too that the version of APPE in Prinergy 7.5.1, 8.0, and 8.02 have the same issues. Most of it has to do with free fonts and web fonts and there is are Acrobat, Callas, or Pitstop fixes for it other to outline the fonts in question. Don't get me wrong...Kodak might be lying about it being something that Adobe changed.

The vector type from a Photoshop PDF is kind of a faux vector. The type itself is an image but it creates a clipping mask from the type which gives you high resolution output of vector. The actual photoshop file though is still RIP killer.
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra | Prinergy 7.5 | Adobe Creative Cloud 2017 | Two Luscher XPose 160 CTP units

Prepress: One who does precision guess work based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

Re: Creative Cloud fonts

Reply #18
Agreed about the Photoshop text, but it is a little better with PDF 1.7+. And yes, it bogs the RIP. I will always discourage it, heavily.

It might be Kodak. I run a lot of variety and haven't run into those problems with the new APPE, so long as I insist on PDF v1.7. I do know that the jump to PDF 1.7 was a big release.... first instance of ISO and extensions, which alone are big enough reasons to use 1.7, exclusively. There are other big reasons to not use legacy PDF versions, unless you are using Acrobat 5. I have an old XP machine that it might work on.  :rotf:
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

Re: Creative Cloud fonts

Reply #19
.... you know ... Open Type had not been created, when PDF 1.4 was introduced (which means 1.4 does not support open type). Just sayin'. I think the PDF version is a big part of these mystery problems. I haven't had a single problem with 1.7. I did get font failures with 1.4 documents, when I first updated, at the beginning of the year. Wish I could get Adobe to set it as a default in the Press Quality PDF export preset, For Fuck's Sake... I end up giving the schpeal a dozen times per week. They say "...used Adobe's Press Quality Preset" and I hate having to tell them that Adobe is behind in fixing that setting.

Get info will show PDF version, in absence of Preflight Report.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

Re: Creative Cloud fonts

Reply #20
.... you know ... Open Type had not been created, when PDF 1.4 was introduced (which means 1.4 does not support open type). Just sayin'. I think the PDF version is a big part of these mystery problems. I haven't had a single problem with 1.7. I did get font failures with 1.4 documents, when I first updated, at the beginning of the year. Wish I could get Adobe to set it as a default in the Press Quality PDF export preset, For Fuck's Sake... I end up giving the schpeal a dozen times per week. They say "...used Adobe's Press Quality Preset" and I hate having to tell them that Adobe is behind in fixing that setting.

Get info will show PDF version, in absence of Preflight Report.
im a little behind in this... always learning!!
Tell me more about using 1.7? we run a VERY old platesetter RIP for plates, (along with a pretty up to date indigo) what sort of differences will it make if I do change that setting? I usually use the default (which is obviously 1.4)

Re: Creative Cloud fonts

Reply #21
.... you know ... Open Type had not been created, when PDF 1.4 was introduced (which means 1.4 does not support open type). Just sayin'. I think the PDF version is a big part of these mystery problems. I haven't had a single problem with 1.7. I did get font failures with 1.4 documents, when I first updated, at the beginning of the year. Wish I could get Adobe to set it as a default in the Press Quality PDF export preset, For Fuck's Sake... I end up giving the schpeal a dozen times per week. They say "...used Adobe's Press Quality Preset" and I hate having to tell them that Adobe is behind in fixing that setting.

Get info will show PDF version, in absence of Preflight Report.

Just checked one of the PDF from a customer that always has some problem pages and their PDF's are 1.4. I do the job on Tuesday evening so I know I will have anywhere from 2-5 pdf's that will not process because of the font issue. I will request they remake one as a 1.7 pdf and see if it makes a difference.

It might be Kodak.

Naw it couldn't be Kodak! :sarcasm:

They do claim it is an Adobe issue since they are the ones that changed the font security in this version of APPE but if they have lied to me and many other users I doubt it is the first or last time. Do you know what version of APPE Sierra is using?
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra | Prinergy 7.5 | Adobe Creative Cloud 2017 | Two Luscher XPose 160 CTP units

Prepress: One who does precision guess work based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

Re: Creative Cloud fonts

Reply #22
I really don't know why Adobe defaults to 1.4 in their profiles. They also default to jpeg compression which sucks too.

The PDF/X-4:2008 profile really is what people should be using for print production. At least it defaults to a PDF 1.6 but also uses jpeg compression. I have a custom one set to 1.7 and zip compression. The problem is getting anyone to use it because by God they have used the Adobe Press Quality Preset since time began and they have the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality.
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra | Prinergy 7.5 | Adobe Creative Cloud 2017 | Two Luscher XPose 160 CTP units

Prepress: One who does precision guess work based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

Re: Creative Cloud fonts

Reply #23
 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:Arrrrgh.... Trying to convince people that "Press Quality" and "High Quality Print" are not Profession Prepress choices....

Re: Creative Cloud fonts

Reply #24
Sending them their ugly preflight report usually shuts them up.

Press Quality is actually about as close as it gets. Take Press Quality - Modify: Compatibility to Acrobat 8/9 PDF 1.7. Use Document Bleed Settings. Output>Do Not Color Manage. Save as preset - "Actual Press Quality"

Then it will be fairly bulletproof (if they remembered to convert spot to process in the swatches pallet first). But again, PDF 1.7 helps this since it changes the nature of dropshadow transparency and should stop knocking holes in active spots when it flattens in the RIP.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

Re: Creative Cloud fonts

Reply #25
I really don't know why Adobe defaults to 1.4 in their profiles. They also default to jpeg compression which sucks too.

The PDF/X-4:2008 profile really is what people should be using for print production. At least it defaults to a PDF 1.6 but also uses jpeg compression. I have a custom one set to 1.7 and zip compression. The problem is getting anyone to use it because by God they have used the Adobe Press Quality Preset since time began and they have the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality.
This was true last year, concerning 4:2008, but became invalid with the release of APPE-4 and CC.

PDF 1.7 was the first to use ISO. That alone should be enough to convince.

If not, look at what Adobe says about APPE-4. 

What’s new in PDF Print Engine 4

Announcing version 4 of the PDF Print Engine 4, Adobe’s high speed, high fidelity print platform. With new performance efficiencies and breakthrough rendering features, version 4 extends APPE’s leading edge for print reproduction. PDF Print Engine 4 shares the same core technologies used in Creative Cloud applications, and has been updated and optimized for them. This guarantees consistency and reliability across proofing cycles, minimizing errors and the need for last-minute fixes. APPE 4 will enable printers to increase workflow efficiency, and capitalize on the profit potential of emerging innovations.

_______

So with the new RIP core, new CC... it is a mistake to backsave something. There just is not a reason to do so. To make something backwards compatible, you must remove the new features at which point, what's the fuckin' point. Legacy formats are bad, across the board.... or we would have carburetors on top of our injector rails. 
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

Re: Creative Cloud fonts

Reply #26
... I'm not letting this go, Adobe! 

I will upload my local prepress release, so you can see how I tell my clients to Fix their Adobe Creative Cloud Bug, since Adobe won't fix it.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

Re: Creative Cloud fonts

Reply #27
I really don't know why Adobe defaults to 1.4 in their profiles. They also default to jpeg compression which sucks too.

The PDF/X-4:2008 profile really is what people should be using for print production. At least it defaults to a PDF 1.6 but also uses jpeg compression. I have a custom one set to 1.7 and zip compression. The problem is getting anyone to use it because by God they have used the Adobe Press Quality Preset since time began and they have the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mentality.
This was true last year, concerning 4:2008, but became invalid with the release of APPE-4 and CC.

PDF 1.7 was the first to use ISO. That alone should be enough to convince.

If not, look at what Adobe says about APPE-4.

What’s new in PDF Print Engine 4

Announcing version 4 of the PDF Print Engine 4, Adobe’s high speed, high fidelity print platform. With new performance efficiencies and breakthrough rendering features, version 4 extends APPE’s leading edge for print reproduction. PDF Print Engine 4 shares the same core technologies used in Creative Cloud applications, and has been updated and optimized for them. This guarantees consistency and reliability across proofing cycles, minimizing errors and the need for last-minute fixes. APPE 4 will enable printers to increase workflow efficiency, and capitalize on the profit potential of emerging innovations.

_______

So with the new RIP core, new CC... it is a mistake to backsave something. There just is not a reason to do so. To make something backwards compatible, you must remove the new features at which point, what's the fuckin' point. Legacy formats are bad, across the board.... or we would have carburetors on top of our injector rails.

Does your workflow actually use APPE 4? Prinergy does not. I know the version that broke Prinergy 7.5 was version 3.something. I am under the impression that while APPE 4 has been released by Adobe that it isn't in the wild (vendor workflows) yet. I used to be able to find the APPE version by doing the 'About Workshop' thing but it doesn't seem to include the APPE version now in that info.
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra | Prinergy 7.5 | Adobe Creative Cloud 2017 | Two Luscher XPose 160 CTP units

Prepress: One who does precision guess work based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

Re: Creative Cloud fonts

Reply #28
... I'm not letting this go, Adobe!

I will upload my local prepress release, so you can see how I tell my clients to Fix their Adobe Creative Cloud Bug, since Adobe won't fix it.

I appreciate your efforts. I have been fighting the "output Preview' crashes and the SHIFT+CLICK atrocities in Acrobat for years and all it has done is given me a headache. :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:

I hope your results are better than mine. :rotf:
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra | Prinergy 7.5 | Adobe Creative Cloud 2017 | Two Luscher XPose 160 CTP units

Prepress: One who does precision guess work based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

Re: Creative Cloud fonts

Reply #29
Yeah, I'm sure you are correct, but it is using a newer version and it really likes modern, compatible PDF version, that won't flatten, exclude or otherwise mess with modern effects and fonts. It really shouldn't be an issue... they could update the preset in the background and all of a sudden, my life would get easier.

I thought quoting their website might draw them out.  :evil: "I'm a driver, I'm a winner... things are gonna change, I can feel it"
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black