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by david
August 09, 2018, 05:11:31 PM

Topic: Settle a debate - curves applied in RIP vs. with customer (Read 912 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Settle a debate - curves applied in RIP vs. with customer

Reply #15
So the printer should have adjustment curves for every customer they have and the prepress person has to apply that particular curve at plate output time? I hope I'm dead before I see that trend spread.

I don't think it would be every customer, just the ones who have implemented a color managed proofing workflow in their marketing department... how many customers does your shop have that have done that? I would bet it's few and far between. I honestly believe the company I'm at now is a rare breed. 
People will notice the change in your attitude towards them, but won't notice their behavior that made you change.  -Bob Marley

Re: Settle a debate - curves applied in RIP vs. with customer

Reply #16
if all it needed was a touch of yellow, I would just use a curve and call it a day.
No need to reinvent the wheel.

Just to be clear - at the RIP or at the customer?

at the RIP, cause they are the ones with the color problem, not the customer.
Prepress guy - doin' jobs one at a time

Re: Settle a debate - curves applied in RIP vs. with customer

Reply #17
So the printer should have adjustment curves for every customer they have and the prepress person has to apply that particular curve at plate output time? I hope I'm dead before I see that trend spread.

I don't think it would be every customer, just the ones who have implemented a color managed proofing workflow in their marketing department... how many customers does your shop have that have done that? I would bet it's few and far between. I honestly believe the company I'm at now is a rare breed.

When I was a tWilliamson/Quad, we actually ddi this for several clients.
Knowing ahead of time what they did to their color, we were able to use a custom set of curves and make it work. Not a biggie, just set up a process templet and rock on.
Prepress guy - doin' jobs one at a time

Re: Settle a debate - curves applied in RIP vs. with customer

Reply #18
So the printer should have adjustment curves for every customer they have and the prepress person has to apply that particular curve at plate output time? I hope I'm dead before I see that trend spread.

I don't think it would be every customer, just the ones who have implemented a color managed proofing workflow in their marketing department... how many customers does your shop have that have done that? I would bet it's few and far between. I honestly believe the company I'm at now is a rare breed.

When I was a tWilliamson/Quad, we actually ddi this for several clients.
Knowing ahead of time what they did to their color, we were able to use a custom set of curves and make it work. Not a biggie, just set up a process templet and rock on.

High end clients I assume. Out here in the sticks 99.999999999999999999999999% think they know what they are talking about but really don't and need to be killed.
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra | Prinergy 7.5 | Adobe Creative Cloud 2017 | Two Luscher XPose 160 CTP units

Prepress: One who does precision guess work based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

Re: Settle a debate - curves applied in RIP vs. with customer

Reply #19
I agree with that, Dave... I do use custom curve settings for a handful of big, repeat clients. But these also have professional designers who understand this stuff, are capable of prepress and work with us to get consistent results.

Like Joe said, 99% of the rest have less than 1% idea WTF is going on, and are quite indignant about it.
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

Re: Settle a debate - curves applied in RIP vs. with customer

Reply #20
So the printer should have adjustment curves for every customer they have and the prepress person has to apply that particular curve at plate output time? I hope I'm dead before I see that trend spread.

I don't think it would be every customer, just the ones who have implemented a color managed proofing workflow in their marketing department... how many customers does your shop have that have done that? I would bet it's few and far between. I honestly believe the company I'm at now is a rare breed.

We have a lot of customers that have heard the color management buzzword and are always asking us for our "magic profile" which will make their shit taste like whipped cream. Anymore I just ignore any of them that mentions color management or profiles.
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra | Prinergy 7.5 | Adobe Creative Cloud 2017 | Two Luscher XPose 160 CTP units

Prepress: One who does precision guess work based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

Re: Settle a debate - curves applied in RIP vs. with customer

Reply #21
And PitStop has that handy "remove ICC profiles" action. Keeps me from having to talk to these types. But it also keeps them thinking they are doing it right. Oh well, done and on to the next one, right?
"... profile says he's a seven-foot tall ex-basketball pro, Hindu guru drag queen alien." ~Jet Black

Re: Settle a debate - curves applied in RIP vs. with customer

Reply #22
When I was a tWilliamson/Quad, we actually ddi this for several clients.
Knowing ahead of time what they did to their color, we were able to use a custom set of curves and make it work. Not a biggie, just set up a process templet and rock on.

High end clients I assume. Out here in the sticks 99.999999999999999999999999% think they know what they are talking about but really don't and need to be killed.
:lmao:  

I understand and feel you there Joe. 100%. 

I don't think the company I now work for falls into that category. I think we fall into the category David is saying they had at Williamson.  You all have totally answered my question, and I will now work with our regular vendors to set up some "client specific" curves at the RIP to address the issue.  As always - I truly value and appreciate the wisdom in these walls.  :drunk3:

People will notice the change in your attitude towards them, but won't notice their behavior that made you change.  -Bob Marley

Re: Settle a debate - curves applied in RIP vs. with customer

Reply #23
yes, if your work is fairly consistent, I would think any printer worth a shit would be happy to do something to make a customer happy so they pay their bill.
Prepress guy - doin' jobs one at a time

Re: Settle a debate - curves applied in RIP vs. with customer

Reply #24
yes, if your work is fairly consistent, I would think any printer worth a shit would be happy to do something to make a customer happy so they pay their bill.

Our work is consistent, and project quantities run in the hundreds of thousands to millions on a lot of them. I'm pretty sure they'll work with me. I did want to be certain about what I was going to ask for prior to asking so I knew what I was asking wasn't (completely) unreasonable.  :yourock:
People will notice the change in your attitude towards them, but won't notice their behavior that made you change.  -Bob Marley

Re: Settle a debate - curves applied in RIP vs. with customer

Reply #25
yes, if your work is fairly consistent, I would think any printer worth a shit would be happy to do something to make a customer happy so they pay their bill.

Agree. Once they are vetted and have proven to not be dumbasses. I know we don't have a lot of customers here that would pass that test unfortunately.
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra | Prinergy 7.5 | Adobe Creative Cloud 2017 | Two Luscher XPose 160 CTP units

Prepress: One who does precision guess work based on unreliable data provided by those of questionable knowledge.

Re: Settle a debate - curves applied in RIP vs. with customer

Reply #26
Just to muddy up this topic some more...

We are G7 certified. The presses (conventional, digital and large format), at least in theory, all match on color so adding the outside variable of a customer color proof just doesn't work for us. With only 1 exception, we don't use any customer provided color proofs and generate internal color proofs that we then send back to the customer for sign off. From what I understand that one exception spent a lot of time and money getting their proofing equipment in line with ours. Setting policy is above my pay grade, but I guess this works for us.  :-\

I would say just be aware of what the vendors you are working with are expecting and what standards they are using an you should be fine.

Re: Settle a debate - curves applied in RIP vs. with customer

Reply #27
at the RIP, cause they are the ones with the color problem, not the customer.

DISCLAIMER:
The below has been done on a separate "Output Device" within our Fiery XF RIP, so that we could revert back to just straight Gracol at anytime if we wanted.

UPDATE:
I decided to make the change to our proofers... I am implementing a very slight visual correction (.vcc) at our RIP, and our photo studio's RIP.  I had our main printer who is G7 qualified print the same "weekly test file" that we use in house and send it to me. I used Color Tools in our Fiery XF RIP to apply a couple very small curves (ie. I took 4% of yellow out, added 3% magenta, and removed 2% of cyan) and now our proofer matches the proof from the G7 printer pretty much dead nuts.

On to the next hurdle, making the same move to the photo studio proofer/RIP. They have the exact same set up as us (Fiery XF/Epson 7900/Gracol .icc/ etc), so I thought it would be "easy" to go over and make the same moves. I took screen grabs of all settings, and printed them out to go over.  Once I got over there - the Color Tools application isn't installed on that machine. It's just the XF Client. Is this possibly a seat limitation thing? I am trying to piece together bits of information from people here because the guy that set it all up is the guy I replaced, and no one seems to have all of the details.

If I just put the .vcc file in the correct folder - will it work the same way or does the workstation need to have Color Tools installed to access the .vcc file? If the workstation needs to have Color Tools installed does anyone know if that means additional licensing? We do not have the discs because when the company upgraded a couple years ago from v4.5 to v6 they did so by having an EFI tech remotely login and install...

I've scoured the EFI website and cannot find a downloads page for any of the applications, but I haven't contacted EFI yet either. I haven't found who their contact was when they did the upgrade (not that matters, because any tech support should be able to help me).

Just thought I'd pick you all's brain and give you an update. Any feedback is appreciated.
People will notice the change in your attitude towards them, but won't notice their behavior that made you change.  -Bob Marley