p01 Kansas City Southern
Skip to main content

Recent Topics

clip
Apple ID Two Factor Authentication Notification
by DPSprint
September 20, 2018, 10:36:30 PM

xx
Set Top Box purchase advice
by DigiCorn
September 20, 2018, 08:48:23 PM

xx
Xmpie or Fusion Pro
by DigiCorn
September 20, 2018, 03:14:02 PM

xx
New Windows 10 PC
by Joe
September 20, 2018, 01:51:50 PM

xx
Illustrator for prepress.
by swampymarsh
September 18, 2018, 03:32:12 AM

Topic: AE, Workflow Trap Tickets & Images (Read 1346 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: AE, Workflow Trap Tickets & Images

Reply #15
This is a pretty common problem with most trapping engines. The problem is really with PDF. When you trap in Esko it is actually trapping a normalized PDF. When the file is converted to PDF the image will always appear as a rectangle (The picture box). So the trapping engines attempt to trap the picture box to the background, regardless of what the content or lack of content is of the image.

I worked for Artwork systems and Esko for 10+ years. I know their software very well. Now I am with Hybrid. We have a cool little trick in our trapping engine that is called vectorize opacity / image. What this does is create a path (on the fly) of the non transparent object inside of a image. The end result is we can work with .PSD's that have "no background" and actually trap the true image to whatever the surrounding layers colors are of the background. Its not perfect, but it does save a lot of time of rebuilding your photoshop images for the sole purpose of trapping.
Peter Kincaid
Hybrid Software

Re: AE, Workflow Trap Tickets & Images

Reply #16
Just a long shot here as I haven't done this in forever, but desperate times call for separate measures. I think I used to copy the placed psd, paste in behind the original psd, scale the bottom psd 101% and set it to overprint the Pantone background. It's not an exact science and the scaling sometimes has to be adjusted to get the trap right. Also, if there is a drop shadow on the bottom psd, you have to get rid of it, or it will double up on the top drop shadow. If I get any time in the next few days I'll try it myself as its been a long, long time since I did this last.
Sweet FA right now.

Re: AE, Workflow Trap Tickets & Images

Reply #17
PrepressN00b:

Sounds exactly like the feature we need here!
Esko has a tool in Illustrator that creates a white under print but it does a god awful job and needs so much adjusting that you might as well just create a clipping path in photoshop in the first place.

Andyfest:

Interesting idea. would it work? I suppose in a pinch and based on the image your duplicating and enlarging by 1%.

Currently I have an expert Esko tech looking over the file(s) in question and they are tweaking our trap ticket for better results.
Its been awhile since I have heard from them, but they were doing it in their off time (at home) so I don't want to rush them.
I'll post back here when they get back to me and see if whatever they are tweaking / advice they give helps.


Re: AE, Workflow Trap Tickets & Images

Reply #18
Way back in the old days when we did a lot of trapping manually in Illy, I used that method with some success. It was around the time when PhShop introduced transparent backgrounds with no clipping paths, so we used any means at our disposal to try and trap these images.
Sweet FA right now.

Re: AE, Workflow Trap Tickets & Images

Reply #19
It still does work, somewhat crude but it does the trick. In my example there is a pill image with a transparent background. The drop shadow is a separate vector feature. I placed pill & drop shadow (top layer) on an 032 spot background (bottom layer). I then copied the pill image only, pasted in back and moved that pill image to a middle layer. I then scaled that pill image at 100.5% and set it to overprint in the attributes. The result is a trapped pill on the spot background. You may have to play with the scaling to get your trap thicker or thinner.
Sweet FA right now.

Re: AE, Workflow Trap Tickets & Images

Reply #20
HI,

Yes definitely crude but it does trap (now if this is 'enough trap' can depend on the printer.  We use 0.003") but some trap is still better than no trap.

Good to have another trick in the tool box.

Thanks!
C2V

Re: AE, Workflow Trap Tickets & Images

Reply #21
HI,

Yes definitely crude but it does trap (now if this is 'enough trap' can depend on the printer.  We use 0.003") but some trap is still better than no trap.

Good to have another trick in the tool box.

Thanks!
C2V
You can adjust the size of the trap by adjusting the scaling of the bottom image. I used 100.5% for the bottom pill for this example, but that could be adjusted up or down to give you more or less trap. Glad to be of help!
Sweet FA right now.

Re: AE, Workflow Trap Tickets & Images

Reply #22
So finally got off the phone with an expert at Esko (in relation to trapping specifically)

After a few days he could not get the images I supplied him to trap.
(Without having to create paths via photoshop or within Illustrator using the white under print tool)

He tried a variety of different ticket options and used the trap suite of tools esko offers outside and inside of illustrator.
he also tried other applications (such as ArtPro) and apparently other RIPS (tho he neglected to mention which) and none of them trapped the file (& images) i sent uniformly / properly (or at all in most cases)

The final verdict is to create clipping paths (in photoshop) around the images which will be trapped via ticket.
Until then he is keeping the set of files sent and using it as a training opportunity and speaking with his co workers and higher ups regarding getting AE to trap images without the need for a clipping path to define the image edge.
(I have no idea if this will bring any change about) but he is aware competitors have options which trap to images without the need for paths around each image and it ["keeps us on our toes"] and ["competitive"]

He did mention that our prepress  (aka: me) cannot be the only ones experiencing this issue.
(i tend to agree) and that he would like to get this addressed in the future if possible
(thanks buddy! us one man prepress people would build a statue in your name)

Till then, I am a slave to the pen tool (and am at the mercy of the artist/designer)
(I should probably put that in my sig..)

Thanks all for the help and general knowledge.

C2V

Re: AE, Workflow Trap Tickets & Images

Reply #23
Instead of doing the pen tool trick, it might prove easier/faster to open the PSD and add a Spot Channel that contains the background color. You'll still have to create the knockout and trap manually within Photoshop, but if the object is on its own layer it should be easier than drawing a path.
Prinergy 8.1.1.286 • Preps 8 (Not a fan) • SmartStream Designer

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night. But set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life!

Re: AE, Workflow Trap Tickets & Images

Reply #24
Hm,

Photoshop is definitely not my thing. 
I will have to look into this option further.

If you still need to create the knock out (which would still require a tight path no?)
and trap in photoshop is that faster than just creating a path and letting AE trap the file once placed in the file?
or just a thought on another option on how to create the image in the first place? : )

-C2V

*edited x2

Re: AE, Workflow Trap Tickets & Images

Reply #25
I think it would be faster, especially if the object to be trapped is on its own layer because you can command-click on the layer to select the shape of all pixels on the layer.

My process would be like this:

1. Create new Spot Channel and fill it with 100% of the spot color. This will look weird because there is no knockout yet so the 4C image appears to overprint the spot.

2. Command-click on the object layer (the thumbnail in the Layers palette) to make an instant selection of the pixels.

3. Contract the selection (Select>Modify>Contract) by however many pixels you want your trap size to be (it helps if your artwork is 100% size or close to it, otherwise your trap may shrink or grow if you have the image scaled in the layout.)

4. On the Spot Channel, fill the selected area with white.

5. Save as .PSD and relink in your layout.
Prinergy 8.1.1.286 • Preps 8 (Not a fan) • SmartStream Designer

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night. But set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life!

Re: AE, Workflow Trap Tickets & Images

Reply #26
Hey! Thanks Dan! that worked

 

Re: AE, Workflow Trap Tickets & Images

Reply #27
Damned right, it did!
Prinergy 8.1.1.286 • Preps 8 (Not a fan) • SmartStream Designer

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night. But set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life!