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Offline Johny R

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Prinergy 1st Refines Questions
« on: May 11, 2018, 01:12:02 PM »
Quick question, do you folks have separate 1st refines set up for different ICC colour spaces (ie Gracol, Swop etc...)? I've tasked my untrained self with getting our shops colour in some kind of order and figured this would be the place to start.
My thoughts are to have the operators output PDF's from Indesign tagged with one of several ICC Profiles depending on the press the job will run on, then 1st refine those PDF's with the same baked in profile, having separate refines pre-set up for them to use. Currently our jobs use a refine with WebCoated Swop as a primary color output destination.
Any thoughts or examples on this would be appreciated.
Thanks

Offline johnny_jay

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Re: Prinergy 1st Refines Questions
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2018, 01:41:00 PM »
We do not. We refine the files as they are and do not assign any ICC profiles. The only ICC profiles we use are assigned when outputting hard proofs or press proof.
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Offline DigiCorn

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Re: Prinergy 1st Refines Questions
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2018, 01:49:25 PM »
Back when I used Prinergy, our guy in charge set up the refine process to strip all ICC profiles from files so as not to be an issue. Proofs were made using our curves and not customer curves. I was just a lackey there, so I don't know a lot about how it was programmed, but that was what I was told.
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Offline Johny R

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Re: Prinergy 1st Refines Questions
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2018, 01:52:56 PM »
Quote from: johnny_jay link=msg=300453 date=1526060460

We do not. We refine the files as they are and do not assign any ICC profiles. The only ICC profiles we use are assigned when outputting hard proofs or press proof.


How do you get around the "Convert to Destination - Primary Color Output" part in the ColorConvert section of the refine? Leave it on a wide gamut profile like gracol?
J

Offline Johny R

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Re: Prinergy 1st Refines Questions
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2018, 02:02:54 PM »
Quote from: DigiCorn link=msg=300454 date=1526060965

Back when I used Prinergy, our guy in charge set up the refine process to strip all ICC profiles from files so as not to be an issue. Proofs were made using our curves and not customer curves. I was just a lackey there, so I don't know a lot about how it was programmed, but that was what I was told.


I didn't know that was possible truthfully to completed strip all profiles, but I would think once a PDF is created with say a Webuncoated profile would have it's colour changed to that space during creation and even if the profile was removed the colour values would remain and may not reproduce properly on a device set to Gracol. 

Of course I may be wrong though and may be overthinking things...

Offline DigiCorn

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Re: Prinergy 1st Refines Questions
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2018, 02:32:21 PM »
I know on Rampage™ (R.I.P.  :tombstone: ), unless you purchase the additional module that maintains ICCs, it cannot apply an ICC profile to any jobs, and my understanding was that it strips existing ICC profiles from jobs. I did use ICC profile for our shop, but only on the proofer (using EFI Color, pre-XF).

Where I'm at now, we have no presses and anything that requires that kind of volume goes out. We are strictly digital now and don't use ICCs; it's all down-and-dirty, take it or leave it.
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Offline johnny_jay

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Re: Prinergy 1st Refines Questions
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2018, 02:42:43 PM »
We strip them as well. We also GCR.

We then convert to SWOP Coated.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 03:02:13 PM by johnny_jay »
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Offline Joe

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Re: Prinergy 1st Refines Questions
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2018, 03:05:03 PM »
Strip them out as well.
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Offline Joe

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Re: Prinergy 1st Refines Questions
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2018, 03:06:56 PM »
As far as how the PDF's are made...we encourage customers to use our job options file we supply them with. Basically PDF X4 with the only change being zip compression instead of jpeg and the latest pdf version available. We don't want them outputting for any special conditions.
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Offline DPSprint

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Re: Prinergy 1st Refines Questions
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2018, 06:58:17 PM »
generally we strip out ICC profiles here as well... the digital indigo only really 'understands' SWOP profile and anything else will produce 'unexpected' results (i.e weird at best!)
For Offset, generally i strip them out as well... although with the new rip its probably not so necessary now, but the old rip we had some crazy stuff happen with some embedded profiles, so figured best to remove. All offset work has a digital proof, customer approves first and the press(s) matches fairly well.

Offline Johny R

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Re: Prinergy 1st Refines Questions
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2018, 07:20:33 AM »
Thanks for the replies, it seems I don't have the options to strip the profiles... (Prinergy 7)

Is anyone still using PDFX 1a 2001?

Offline Joe

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Re: Prinergy 1st Refines Questions
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2018, 09:28:12 AM »
No on the PDFX 1a 2001.
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Offline DPSprint

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Re: Prinergy 1st Refines Questions
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2018, 10:48:01 PM »
Quote from: Johny R link=msg=300482 date=1526296833

Thanks for the replies, it seems I don't have the options to strip the profiles... (Prinergy 7)

Is anyone still using PDFX 1a 2001?

strip out profiles using Pitstop if you have it? thats how we do it (we dont use Prinergy)