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Offline G_Town

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Overprint preview keeps defaulting to Adobe RGB
« on: May 06, 2020, 02:31:00 PM »
I rejected a customer file because I thought it was sent in as RGB.

Just started happening.

Any ideas?

Offline Possum

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Re: Overprint preview keeps defaulting to Adobe RGB
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2020, 02:37:48 PM »
New feature?  :rotf:
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Offline abc

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Re: Overprint preview keeps defaulting to Adobe RGB
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2020, 03:56:40 PM »
Just remember it's a 'Simulation'

Funny I had the same discussion with a customer recently who had the same problem.

I thought it was file specific, the file was CMYK, but we couldn't figure out how to change it unless we made it a PDF/X file with an output intent.

Offline G_Town

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Re: Overprint preview keeps defaulting to Adobe RGB
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2020, 04:09:01 PM »
Just remember it's a 'Simulation'

Funny I had the same discussion with a customer recently who had the same problem.

I thought it was file specific, the file was CMYK, but we couldn't figure out how to change it unless we made it a PDF/X file with an output intent.

Right I know but when it's set to RGB all you have are RGB seps. Obviously I know to check it now.

Just strange that is started happening out of nowhere.

Offline abc

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Re: Overprint preview keeps defaulting to Adobe RGB
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2020, 04:40:51 PM »
I know.

The query I had was output preview said RGB, PitStop said CMYK.

I must admit I did not spend a lot of time researching why Acrobat did that.
I wondered if it was something to do with the color management settings of the PDF when it was saved, maybe the working space?
but it is weird, and very confusing.

I forget if we managed to change the output preview settings and save them with the PDF.

Offline abc

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Offline DCurry

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Re: Overprint preview keeps defaulting to Adobe RGB
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2020, 07:39:44 AM »
If I rejected every file that contains RGB I'd have practically no customers! We have all our RIP settings dialed in so RGB gets converted on the fly with no problem. The only thing that ever causes issues is if there is an RGB black or gray that is not the same value for R, G & B won't convert cleanly to K only, but if they are the same values our workflow keeps it as K or a screen of K.
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Offline Joe

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Re: Overprint preview keeps defaulting to Adobe RGB
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2020, 08:37:32 AM »
If I rejected every file that contains RGB I'd have practically no customers! We have all our RIP settings dialed in so RGB gets converted on the fly with no problem. The only thing that ever causes issues is if there is an RGB black or gray that is not the same value for R, G & B won't convert cleanly to K only, but if they are the same values our workflow keeps it as K or a screen of K.

Same here but recently we had a photo that was tagged with a profile named ProPhoto RGB. Prinergy borked it up pretty good. Seems we are running into this kind of thing where a customer assigns a profile to make it look better and it did because if I removed the profile it printed like it looked without the profile. Prinergy is set to strip away all profiles. Customers don't understand what color management is and none of them have the stomach to implement it correctly.

I have seen the original problem though where the OP profile changes to something other than what we have it set to. PITA.
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Offline johnny_jay

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Re: Overprint preview keeps defaulting to Adobe RGB
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2020, 09:54:50 AM »
Out of curiosity, what ICC profile do you use when converting rgb to cmyk in your process?

I found one online that I have been using for a few years in Prinergy,  "Wirephoto gamma 2.2" from Hutch color - http://www.hutchcolor.com/profiles.html

We were looking to improve how rgb images reproduce when converted and found those and tested them, thought the 2.2 gamma had the best result.
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Offline Joe

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Re: Overprint preview keeps defaulting to Adobe RGB
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2020, 10:00:16 AM »
It is the one that Kodak setup for us back in 2009 when we bought Prinergy.

PO_SWOP_CGATS_TR001 U300K95.icm

I'll take a look at the one you are using.
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Offline DCurry

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Re: Overprint preview keeps defaulting to Adobe RGB
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2020, 10:28:07 AM »
We have ours set to honor existing profiles when converting from RGB to CMYK. If an RGB has no profile, it assumes sRGB and makes the conversion as though it were sRGB. Works great for us.



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Offline Joe

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Re: Overprint preview keeps defaulting to Adobe RGB
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2020, 10:38:24 AM »
Out of curiosity, what ICC profile do you use when converting rgb to cmyk in your process?

I found one online that I have been using for a few years in Prinergy,  "Wirephoto gamma 2.2" from Hutch color - http://www.hutchcolor.com/profiles.html

We were looking to improve how rgb images reproduce when converted and found those and tested them, thought the 2.2 gamma had the best result.

Actually the RGB profile we are using is HDPP sRGB Profile.icm I don't see a lot of difference between that profile and "Wirephoto gamma 2.2" on my test file.

We have ours set to honor existing profiles when converting from RGB to CMYK. If an RGB has no profile, it assumes sRGB and makes the conversion as though it were sRGB. Works great for us.

I don't remember why but the Kodak person that originally setup Prinergy for us said never do that. I just tried it on the problem file we had and it does look much better. Might be time to re-evaluate out color settings.
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Offline david

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Re: Overprint preview keeps defaulting to Adobe RGB
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2020, 10:40:00 AM »
here's my settings. This work great for us.
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Offline DCurry

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Re: Overprint preview keeps defaulting to Adobe RGB
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2020, 04:03:36 PM »
We used to assume AdobeRGB on untagged RGB images, but more often than not it led to very red skin tones. We figured that since most untagged RGB images probably come from a cheap camera, best bet would be to assume sRGB on untagged images since it is a "lowest common denominator" space and it helped tremendously. We have one customer in particular that does a lot of political mailings and their images are all over the map and they used to complain about the red skin tones but not anymore!
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Offline G_Town

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Re: Overprint preview keeps defaulting to Adobe RGB
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2020, 04:53:38 PM »
If I rejected every file that contains RGB I'd have practically no customers! We have all our RIP settings dialed in so RGB gets converted on the fly with no problem. The only thing that ever causes issues is if there is an RGB black or gray that is not the same value for R, G & B won't convert cleanly to K only, but if they are the same values our workflow keeps it as K or a screen of K.

Yes we are no RGB sissies but the sales person on this particular account wants everything pushed back if not correct.