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Offline scottrsimons

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Preps and flatbed cutter
« on: October 21, 2020, 01:24:56 PM »
Anyone have any experience using Preps to do layouts for a flatbed cutter? I have been tasked with finding out if Preps can do layouts for it, and if it can send the data to the cutter so it can process it correctly. I know these cutters are usually pushed by CAD systems, but wondering if Preps can do it to. I also know that Preps has some functionality for packaging, but not sure how that plays into this. Really looking for some real world knowledge.
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Offline Joe

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Re: Preps and flatbed cutter
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2020, 01:43:24 PM »
Yes Preps can do it. No I have not done it before. ;D

Do you have access to the GUA Forums? If so there was a recent post about this?

PPF (CIP) file output from standalone Preps?

If not I will copy and paste from there to here for you. Just let me know if you need it done.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 01:47:29 PM by Joe »
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Offline scottrsimons

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Re: Preps and flatbed cutter
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2020, 08:20:42 AM »
Thanks for the link Joe. I do have access to the forums and I don't think I've seen that article before, but we have setup CIP data for our cutters in bindery. Which work most of the time, which I would say about 90%. The other 10%, the cut data is just a big sheet instead of the individual pages like they should be. Which is another issue altogether, which I have contacted Kodak about, and they don't know why.
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Offline Joe

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Re: Preps and flatbed cutter
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2020, 09:17:51 AM »
The way I understand it to get the proper cutter data you have to print the cutter data directly from Preps stand alone and not via workshop. Assuming you know that is there anything different with anything the 10% of the time that it doesn't work right?
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Offline scottrsimons

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Re: Preps and flatbed cutter
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2020, 09:54:57 AM »
Yep, that is the way it works. The CIP data is saved directly out of Preps when you print your layout back to Workshop. It saves it to a directory of your choosing. It will also overwrite the file any time you make changes to the layout in Preps.
And for the 10%, I haven't been able to figure out what is different, as I have been able to make the layout the exact same way we make all the other layouts, and yet it still sends the data weird.
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Offline DigiCorn

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Re: Preps and flatbed cutter
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2020, 04:32:36 PM »
It's literally been 17 years since I did this... I remember once I goofed around with Rampage and was able to create a CIP data tier that created a file on RIP, but before I did it on Scitex, so I'm really afraid I'd be of no help, only that in Prinergy it's possible CIP data might be a module you need to purchase a license for separately.
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Offline Joe

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Re: Preps and flatbed cutter
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2020, 10:04:48 PM »
The CIP license for Prinergy is for ink CIP files for setting the ink keys. The cutting data comes from Preps and is included in Preps. There is no extra license needed for CIP cutting data.
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Offline johnny_jay

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Re: Preps and flatbed cutter
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2020, 10:34:39 AM »
We tried it for a while 15 or so years ago and we had weird results as well. Our main problem that we run sheeted on a web press and many times we run half turn out so that did not work ad all. We also need to cut in head guides and laps and that meant that data we sent had to be adjusted by the cutter operator to eliminate cuts.

I found these notes I had typed up.
Will Work
1.   in time
2.   no head trims
3.   All trim marks on piece
Won’t Work
1.   Half Turn out covers
2.   Head trims inside – must be adjusted by cutter operator
3.   Added marks not set by software – outsourcing covers and cut to a specific head trim
4.   cut stock to different width
5.   4 page sheeted – operator must adjust cuts so not  to cut on spine

We were running Rampage at this time and saved the data to a folder the bindery could see, sorry I do not have more notes but for us it caused more work than it saved.
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Offline scottrsimons

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Re: Preps and flatbed cutter
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2020, 10:44:04 AM »
I went out to check with our cutter operators to see how it's been going, since we've been using CIP data with the cutters for about 3-4 months now. And everything has been fine. My earlier prognosis of 10% errors, was incorrect. They are not having any issues anymore. Goes back to the ol' adage, no news is good news.
Prinergy 8, with Preps 8. Print out of Preps back to Workshop which Preps saves the CIP cut data to a folder on our network where the cutter operators can access from their software to run the cutters. They select the job they need to cut, and all the cut data and programming is already done for them. They just need to double check it, and then process the job as usual. The ROI should be pretty quick, with the efficiency of the operators not needing to manually programming the cutting, and the fewer mistakes.
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Offline DigiCorn

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Re: Preps and flatbed cutter
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2020, 01:36:38 PM »
The CIP license for Prinergy is for ink CIP files for setting the ink keys. The cutting data comes from Preps and is included in Preps. There is no extra license needed for CIP cutting data.
My only other experience providing cut data comes from Esko software. I do remember there's a very precise naming convention for the spot colors within the RIPped data file for the various finishing options.
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